| Re: For once, a new way of rail-head cleaning Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 16:19, 28th September 2025 |     |
Thanks for your post, stuving. I have now moved my topic and merged it here with yours, in the interests of clarity and continuity. CfN.
| Re: Dry ice to be used to clear rail leaves in trial by Northern, Autumn 2025 Posted by stuving at 16:06, 28th September 2025 | |
That's "new" is it? Like it was when it was first tried out in 2021?
And then, I commented "You'd be forgiven a degree of scepticism about any new way of getting leaves and their slippery residues off rails - we keep getting "the end of this problem is nigh" news releases followed by not a lot. This one is at least a novel idea - while it's been in development since 2015, I don't recall hearing about it before. But it's by no means obvious why it should work better than other methods."
| Dry ice to be used to clear rail leaves in trial by Northern, Autumn 2025 Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 14:12, 28th September 2025 | |
From the BBC:
A trial that blasts dry ice on to train tracks to clear them of leaves is taking place this autumn.
A Northern train will run between Bishop Auckland and North Road station in Darlington to help clear the line by freezing the leaves using dry ice pellets, which then turn back into a gas.
Fallen wet leaves can cause trains to slide, Northern said, leading to delays as drivers pull away from stations more slowly and brake earlier to avoid any issues.
Currently drivers rely on forecasting and mapping, with Network Rail using railhead treatment trains to clear mulch off the tracks and apply a gel, containing a mix of sand and steel grains.
The new cryogenic technology, developed by engineers at the University of Sheffield, blasts dry ice pellets in a "stream of air at supersonic speed".
Roger Lewis, a professor of mechanical engineering at the university, said the system could "revolutionise" how railways were cleaned. "[It could] cut delays for passengers and save the industry some of the millions it loses to leaves on the line every year," he said.
The train running on the North East railway line will not be carrying passengers and is scheduled to operate between ordinary services.
Rob Cummings, Northern's seasonal performance improvement manager, said: "Some people like to make jokes about wet leaves on the line, but when you have steel wheels running on a steel rail, any slippery substance that affects the grip is a big problem."
Northern said if the trial was successful, the technology could be used on trains carrying passengers.
| Re: For once, a new way of rail-head cleaning Posted by stuving at 23:53, 28th April 2022 | |
While we are still looking for that elusive solution to the adhesion problem, which still causes accidents and wheel flats, over on Long Island it's already been found! And I've heard they have a leaf or two in those parts. This is from MTA LIRR:
LIRR’s Leaf-Fighting Technology Gets Stronger and Faster
Long Island Rail Road
Updated October 30, 2020 10:15 p.m.
The Rail Road Adds Second Laser Train and Increases Speed Resulting in Less Delays and Trains Being Taken out of Service
MTA Long Island Rail Road (LIRR) today announced that its industry-leading laser train is working even faster and harder to battle the danger of fallen leaves on the tracks. The LIRR has added another laser train and increased the speed to 25 mph, up from 15 mph, covering more of the system and minimizing the number cars from being taken out of service during the fall season...
Since 2018, the LIRR Maintenance of Equipment Department (MoE) has transformed how to tackle the negative effects of leaf fall season with innovative solutions such as partnering with Amsterdam-based manufacturer Laser Precision Solutions who pioneered the technology. The laser train works by using high-intensity lasers to remove contaminated layers from railway tracks, requiring only one pass to leave a smooth, clean rail behind. With the addition of a second train, all vital parts of the network can be cleaned every 24 hours. With an effect lasting at least 24 hours, this means that slip-slide will be minimized to a very low level.
Long Island Rail Road
Updated October 30, 2020 10:15 p.m.
The Rail Road Adds Second Laser Train and Increases Speed Resulting in Less Delays and Trains Being Taken out of Service
MTA Long Island Rail Road (LIRR) today announced that its industry-leading laser train is working even faster and harder to battle the danger of fallen leaves on the tracks. The LIRR has added another laser train and increased the speed to 25 mph, up from 15 mph, covering more of the system and minimizing the number cars from being taken out of service during the fall season...
Since 2018, the LIRR Maintenance of Equipment Department (MoE) has transformed how to tackle the negative effects of leaf fall season with innovative solutions such as partnering with Amsterdam-based manufacturer Laser Precision Solutions who pioneered the technology. The laser train works by using high-intensity lasers to remove contaminated layers from railway tracks, requiring only one pass to leave a smooth, clean rail behind. With the addition of a second train, all vital parts of the network can be cleaned every 24 hours. With an effect lasting at least 24 hours, this means that slip-slide will be minimized to a very low level.
Note that that was a second train being added in autumn 2020, after running the first one as a trial for two years.
The system is quite small, only 700 miles of track, so doing all that at 25 mph would take 14 hours by two trains. Most of that track is in the less-busy outer branches, so the slow RHTTs should not be a serious obstruction.
While deploying the equipment over the whole GBR network might not make sense (yet), the London commuter part at least can't be so different.
| Re: For once, a new way of rail-head cleaning Posted by broadgage at 02:12, 5th October 2021 | |
I thought that there was a shortage of carbon dioxide ?
I believe the shortage is food-grade carbon dioxide. So the gas may still be readily available in less-pure form - and this might well be suitable for rail-head use.So far as I am aware, "dry ice" or solid carbon dioxide comes in only one grade, it is either dry ice or it is not.
Carbon dioxide in cylinders is allegedly available in food grade and in not food grade. I doubt that there is any difference. I have observed both types of carbon dioxide cylinder being filled from the same bulk tank and in similar surroundings.
The workers handling the food grade cylinders wore white coats whereas those handling the industrial cylinders wore blue overall coats, perhaps that is the difference!
Most but not all industrial carbon dioxide cylinders have an internal dip tube such that LIQUID and not vapour emerges when the valve is opened. Often used to freeze water pipes for repairs. The presence of this internal dip tube is indicated by an external white line along the length of the cylinder.
| Re: For once, a new way of rail-head cleaning Posted by stuving at 22:38, 4th October 2021 | |
I'm not so sure about this statement: "The system is also much better for the environment as it uses reclaimed carbon dioxide." Rather than what?
That was not just unclear, it was misleading. I'm sure they were saying they didn't use the CO2 from fertilizer plants, which use methane as a feedstock (and has recently been in short supply). CO2 could be called "recycled" if it comes from the atmosphere (from oxygen and nitrogen production) or captured from fermentation, for example. What I think is specious is the suggestion that this machine is uniquely capable of using such dry ice. It can hardly be rather than other dry-ice-based rail cleaners, surely?
| Re: For once, a new way of rail-head cleaning Posted by PrestburyRoad at 22:09, 4th October 2021 | |
I thought that there was a shortage of carbon dioxide ?
I believe the shortage is food-grade carbon dioxide. So the gas may still be readily available in less-pure form - and this might well be suitable for rail-head use.| Re: For once, a new way of rail-head cleaning Posted by ellendune at 22:05, 4th October 2021 | |
I thought that there was a shortage of carbon dioxide ?
Also I thought we were trying to reduce Carbon Dioxide emissions?| Re: For once, a new way of rail-head cleaning Posted by broadgage at 21:13, 4th October 2021 | |
I thought that there was a shortage of carbon dioxide ?
| Re: For once, a new way of rail-head cleaning Posted by infoman at 17:52, 4th October 2021 | |
radio bristol had an interview with Prof. roger Lewis on monday 4 october about the new cleaning method starts approx 17:30pm
| For once, a new way of rail-head cleaning Posted by stuving at 15:50, 4th October 2021 | |
You'd be forgiven a degree of scepticism about any new way of getting leaves and their slippery residues off rails - we keep getting "the end of this problem is nigh" news releases followed by not a lot. This one is at least a novel idea - while it's been in development since 2015, I don't recall hearing about it before. But it's by no means obvious why it should work better than other methods.
From Sheffield University:
- University of Sheffield engineers have developed a new track cleaning system to remove leaves from railway lines - an issue which costs the rail industry millions of pounds each year
- Pioneering technology can be deployed onboard passenger trains - the first time passenger trains have been used to clean the line anywhere in the world
- Trials have shown the cleaning system reduces delays, improves braking distances and is significantly more effective at removing leaves from the line than the current track cleaning methods
The new rail cleaning technique, developed by a team of researchers led by Professor Roger Lewis from the University’s Department of Mechanical Engineering, uses dry ice pellets in a stream of high pressure air which freeze the leaves and then as the pellets turn back to gas they are blasted away from the railhead. ...
I'm not so sure about this statement: "The system is also much better for the environment as it uses reclaimed carbon dioxide." Rather than what?
| Re: Rail Head Treatment Trains Posted by CyclingSid at 07:12, 2nd October 2019 | |
The I newspaper this morning, on page 2, has an infographic on getting leaves of the rails. New system will be trialled on a commuter route. It involves spraying sand between the wheels and the track. I thought this was something new with steam engines.
| Re: Rail Head Treatment Trains Posted by MVR S&T at 23:46, 1st October 2019 | |
Yes running through Hinton Admiral now:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U21931/2019/10/01/advanced
| Re: Rail Head Treatment Trains Posted by a-driver at 20:09, 1st October 2019 | |
They’re a waste of time. RHTT speeds by, cleans the railhead but whips up the leaves behind it. Leaves fall back down to earth landing on the new wet railhead and they stick to it. A couple of later later and you’re back to square one!
| Re: Rail Head Treatment Trains Posted by SandTEngineer at 17:57, 1st October 2019 | |
Some already run on the Falmouth branch in Cornwall. See down the page here: http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/latest-input--news--old-pictures-etc
| Rail Head Treatment Trains Posted by grahame at 17:16, 1st October 2019 | |
From Rail Advent
Network Rail’s RHTT trains are ready for the Autumn
I've seen these running on the Marston Vale line and the stock parked up in the spring at York. How many lines in GWR land are covered, and at what frequency?
By the way - I have quoted the headline as written in Rail Advent - but does not the second T in the acronym stand for "Train", so should the headline not read "Network Rail’s RHTTs are ready for the Autumn"?
