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Great Western Coffee Shop
Recent Public Posts - [guest]
Re: Spring 1965 - timetables Salisbury - Bath / Chippenham / Patney & Chirton
In "TransWilts line - Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury, Salisbury" [378752/32418/18]
Posted by Mark A at 20:07, 26th August 2026
 
Looking at connection times out of its trains, the first four I checked, Devizes services would have been a distress purchase by then.

Re: Swindon <-> Westbury service updates and amendments, ongoing discussion - 2026
In "TransWilts line - Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury, Salisbury" [378751/31359/18]
Posted by grahame at 19:34, 26th August 2026
 
Ironically it left just as the above was being posted - some 20 minutes late.

With the new later return time of 17:45, it set back from Swindon on time. 

20 minutes later all the way up.  Ironically, if it was timetabled to run at the time it actually ran today, it would provide a more useful return service for commuters from Westbury and Trowbridge via Melksham to Chippenham and Swindon.   How much extra traffic it would generate, I don't know - there's no equal and opposite train in the morning - a gap from 06:29 to 09:09 at Melksham.

Re: Swindon <-> Westbury service updates and amendments, ongoing discussion - 2026
In "TransWilts line - Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury, Salisbury" [378750/31359/18]
Posted by bobm at 19:29, 26th August 2026
 
Ironically it left just as the above was being posted - some 20 minutes late.

With the new later return time of 17:45, it set back from Swindon on time. 

Spring 1965 - timetables Salisbury - Bath / Chippenham / Patney & Chirton
In "TransWilts line - Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury, Salisbury" [378749/32418/18]
Posted by grahame at 18:22, 26th August 2026
 
From a timetable obtained for a few shekels at Sheffield Park last Saturday






Re: Swindon <-> Westbury service updates and amendments, ongoing discussion - 2026
In "TransWilts line - Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury, Salisbury" [378748/31359/18]
Posted by grahame at 16:45, 26th August 2026
 
16:23 Westbury to Swindon due 17:06

16:23 Westbury to Swindon due 17:06 is being delayed at Westbury.
This is due to a late running train being in front of this one.

Summer pictures - Kennet and Avon Canal
In "The West - but NOT trains in the West" [378747/32417/31]
Posted by grahame at 16:42, 26th August 2026
Already liked by PrestburyRoad, TonyN, Chris from Nailsea, JohnM, eightonedee, PhilWakely
 
All the way from Avonmouth to Reading ... the Avon, Kennet and Kennet and Avon Canal between them are accessible, with some long gaps, from the railway. Some wonderful station to station walks.   Here are some pictures on the longest unstationed section - Trowbridge to Pewsey.














Re: Commuters / General Traffic v Heritage v Preservation - FT Article
In "Media about railways, and other means of transport" [378746/32412/49]
Posted by grahame at 15:52, 26th August 2026
 
[snip] ...

The NUR's 1976 "blacking" of the railway "to protect the jobs of their bus driver members" was a godsend to the BR management.  They did not dare challenge the union (this was before the union power reforms of the 1980s) so it was convenient to blame the NUR for the through trains never becoming possible.

So it was the cost and inertia on the part of the big railway that meant the initial ambition of the WSR not becoming fulfilled

Many thanks for that.  It's a story that, sadly, I'm familiar with.  Been around with learned and informed people to have picked so much up by osmosis. It continues to feel like a tragic missed opportunity, and one that parties with differing interests put so much heart into delivering the outcome they wanted that they remain sore to this day, to the extent that trying to move forward towards a shared and connected future still reads like pulling teeth.

Even generations later, the "big railway" still seems to impose costs and regulations on smaller players who would benefit - and so would their areas - from a realistic approach, and the young volunteers who were so hurt by the failure(s) remain untrusting - they may say realistic - in their more senior years.  They don't want to risk going out onto a limb, or showing a weakness by offering compromise.   Add to that - the modern data and technology age give rise to an abilityto add layers or rules and regulation, consultation and analysis, all with costs and longer timescales.  So that really doesn't make it feel like things are well-placed to get arrangements good for passengers and the area served implemeneted.

Re: What are the tipping standards across the South West?
In "The West - but NOT trains in the West" [378745/32058/31]
Posted by TaplowGreen at 13:41, 26th August 2026
 
I'd like to see things go further with the removal of a separate service charge, the full cost of each item on a menu just being what it says on the menu. I know there is a perception that for particularly poor service you can choose to exclude that element, but the same doesn't apply when buying most other products, or indeed when paying for other services such as home, bike or car repairs, or (say) private dental treatment. I express my appreciation for good service by repeated patronage, and avoid places that give poor service while trying to avoid basing my entire judgement on a single experience unless it's obviously indicative of the general attitude.

It's a fair point but if you try to double the pay of waiting staff in the UK in the manner suggested, an already fragile hospitality sector will almost certainly collapse in a heap.

I don't think tradesmen, mechanics and/or dentists generally rely on tips to make up their salaries to a reasonable level - certainly not judging by the BMWs and (one!) Aston Martin in the staff car park at my Dental surgery!

Re: Cornish mainline and branch line delays - ongoing discussion
In "Shorter journeys in Plymouth and Cornwall" [378744/28556/25]
Posted by old original at 13:29, 26th August 2026
 
Those 175s are great aren't they? Presume they are supposed to be running these?

All cancelled.

10:14 Plymouth to Penzance due 12:12
13:14 Penzance to Plymouth due 15:10
13:39 Plymouth to Penzance due 15:40
15:52 Penzance to Plymouth due 17:47
Thu, 27 August 10:14 Plymouth to Penzance due 12:12
Thu, 27 August 13:14 Penzance to Plymouth due 15:10
Thu, 27 August 13:39 Plymouth to Penzance due 15:40
Thu, 27 August 15:52 Penzance to Plymouth due 17:47
Fri, 28 August 10:14 Plymouth to Penzance due 12:12
Fri, 28 August 13:14 Penzance to Plymouth due 15:10
Fri, 28 August 13:39 Plymouth to Penzance due 15:40
Fri, 28 August 15:52 Penzance to Plymouth due 17:47

most of these haven't run for weeks

Re: UK population exceeds 60 million - BBC report, 24th August 2006
In "Campaigns for new and improved services" [378743/32402/28]
Posted by TaplowGreen at 13:21, 26th August 2026
 
So whilst the population growth has definitely boosted populations of the big cities, at the same time, internal migration is considerably boosting the case for rail improvements throughout the southwest.
Portishead - population now around 26,500, for example. 
Verily a throbbing metropolis!

... when compared with Taplow - population now around 2,400 - which nevertheless has access to a main line railway.  Whereas Portishead has been with without any railway connection since 7 September 1964.

Soon to be rectified, however - and that, I think, brings us rather neatly back to the point grahame was making in his original post for this topic. 

CfN. 

Can't deny the introduction of the Elizabeth Line to Taplow has been transformational - 6 trains an hour to London through to Abbey Wood in the peak, GWR managed 2 as far as Paddington with nothing on Sundays, it's been a major draw to the area which still however retains its rural charm and peace and quiet despite being pretty close to London and suburbia.

Hopefully the planners won't ruin that by allowing hundreds of new properties to be built!

Re: UK population exceeds 60 million - BBC report, 24th August 2006
In "Campaigns for new and improved services" [378742/32402/28]
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 12:38, 26th August 2026
 
So whilst the population growth has definitely boosted populations of the big cities, at the same time, internal migration is considerably boosting the case for rail improvements throughout the southwest.
Portishead - population now around 26,500, for example. 
Verily a throbbing metropolis!

... when compared with Taplow - population now around 2,400 - which nevertheless has access to a main line railway.  Whereas Portishead has been with without any railway connection since 7 September 1964.

Soon to be rectified, however - and that, I think, brings us rather neatly back to the point grahame was making in his original post for this topic. 

CfN. 

Re: Corsham Station reopening
In "Campaigns for new and improved services" [378741/226/28]
Posted by John D at 11:48, 26th August 2026
 
What service pattern is there that could call there?
At present there are just the Paddington services, and it doesn't really seem justified to add an extra stop to them, particularly when they are running on diesel.

The 2 hourly Bristol-Oxford also now pass through

Re: Commuters / General Traffic v Heritage v Preservation - FT Article
In "Media about railways, and other means of transport" [378740/32412/49]
Posted by Witham Bobby at 11:42, 26th August 2026
Already liked by GBM, Chris from Nailsea
 
There are plenty of examples in Germany where heritage railways are professionally-run and operated, commercially viable entities, which manage to provide a reliable year-round service with holiday-period steam, museums and preservation of historic stations and structures.

The question is, if adequately capitalised, supported by a suitable regulatory framework, local authorities and sub-contractors, could the same thing exist in the UK? Could, for example, the West Somerset railway lease 150/2s, upgrade the PW and signalling and offer an hourly service into Taunton, but still run weekend heritage steam and diesel, professionalise it's catering operations etc?
 
I suspect the problem is that the regulatory burden is too high in the UK, and that neither the unions, NR or DfT are going to want nimble local operators offering a better product than then big railway.
 

Back in the mid 1970s on the WSR we were complying with the regulatory burden.  Staff passed by British Railways traction and movements inspectors, for example.  We worked to the BR rule book. 

What stopped the progress of the re-opening was the BR Divisional Management at Bristol, who plucked some mad costs out of the sky (or elsewhere) and stuck them onto the Running Powers Agreement they wanted, for WSR trains to run over the couple of miles of former Up Relief line. You'd call these costs "Access Charges" these days, I guess.  Maintenance for the track, S&C, and signalling system.  A proportion of the Silk Mill signalmen's wages.  All sounds reasonable enough until you come to the BR way of calculating them

BR also wanted to control the maintenance of all vehicles that would be using their track, and wanted to charge exorbitantly for providing fitters and inspectors to do this.

The NUR's 1976 "blacking" of the railway "to protect the jobs of their bus driver members" was a godsend to the BR management.  They did not dare challenge the union (this was before the union power reforms of the 1980s) so it was convenient to blame the NUR for the through trains never becoming possible.

So it was the cost and inertia on the part of the big railway that meant the initial ambition of the WSR not becoming fulfilled

Re: UK population exceeds 60 million - BBC report, 24th August 2006
In "Campaigns for new and improved services" [378739/32402/28]
Posted by TaplowGreen at 11:24, 26th August 2026
 

So whilst the population growth has definitely boosted populations of the big cities, at the same time, internal migration is considerably boosting the case for rail improvements throughout the southwest
 

Portishead - population now around 26,500, for example. 


Verily a throbbing metropolis!

Re: Cornish mainline and branch line delays - ongoing discussion
In "Shorter journeys in Plymouth and Cornwall" [378738/28556/25]
Posted by REVUpminster at 10:50, 26th August 2026
 
Those 175s are great aren't they? Presume they are supposed to be running these?

All cancelled.

10:14 Plymouth to Penzance due 12:12
13:14 Penzance to Plymouth due 15:10
13:39 Plymouth to Penzance due 15:40
15:52 Penzance to Plymouth due 17:47
Thu, 27 August 10:14 Plymouth to Penzance due 12:12
Thu, 27 August 13:14 Penzance to Plymouth due 15:10
Thu, 27 August 13:39 Plymouth to Penzance due 15:40
Thu, 27 August 15:52 Penzance to Plymouth due 17:47
Fri, 28 August 10:14 Plymouth to Penzance due 12:12
Fri, 28 August 13:14 Penzance to Plymouth due 15:10
Fri, 28 August 13:39 Plymouth to Penzance due 15:40
Fri, 28 August 15:52 Penzance to Plymouth due 17:47

Should be. Two 175s out today 002 started it's mileage accumulation doing Exeter-Paignton-Exeter then ended up in Exeter depot.

113 is doing mileage accumulation between Plymouth and Penzance.

There is still one 2 car and eight 3 car at Wolverton that when they arrive at Laira will be service ready according to Mark Hopgood. Nothing has come out of Wolverton since the 23 June.

Re: What are the tipping standards across the South West?
In "The West - but NOT trains in the West" [378737/32058/31]
Posted by Ralph Ayres at 10:36, 26th August 2026
Already liked by ChrisB, eightonedee
 
I'd like to see things go further with the removal of a separate service charge, the full cost of each item on a menu just being what it says on the menu. I know there is a perception that for particularly poor service you can choose to exclude that element, but the same doesn't apply when buying most other products, or indeed when paying for other services such as home, bike or car repairs, or (say) private dental treatment. I express my appreciation for good service by repeated patronage, and avoid places that give poor service while trying to avoid basing my entire judgement on a single experience unless it's obviously indicative of the general attitude.

Re: Corsham Station reopening
In "Campaigns for new and improved services" [378736/226/28]
Posted by ChrisB at 09:51, 26th August 2026
 
and to remove some of the stops from the 

Cut off in his prime!...

Re: UK population exceeds 60 million - BBC report, 24th August 2006
In "Campaigns for new and improved services" [378735/32402/28]
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 09:29, 26th August 2026
 

So whilst the population growth has definitely boosted populations of the big cities, at the same time, internal migration is considerably boosting the case for rail improvements throughout the southwest
 

Portishead - population now around 26,500, for example. 

Re: Corsham Station reopening
In "Campaigns for new and improved services" [378734/226/28]
Posted by Noggin at 09:13, 26th August 2026
 
What service pattern is there that could call there?

Well that's the rather thorny question isn't it?

At present there are just the Paddington services, and it doesn't really seem justified to add an extra stop to them, particularly when they are running on diesel.

Arguably a better long-term solution would be an all-stops Bristol TM to Chippenham metro service, which could also accommodate additional new stations like Saltford, Bristol St Annes, Bathampton etc.

The longer-distance Weymouths and Southamptons could then be run semi-fast.

Whether there is a capacity to do that and how well it matches to the ridership patterns is another question

and to remove some of the stops from the 

 
 

Re: Cornish mainline and branch line delays - ongoing discussion
In "Shorter journeys in Plymouth and Cornwall" [378733/28556/25]
Posted by TaplowGreen at 09:12, 26th August 2026
 
Those 175s are great aren't they? Presume they are supposed to be running these?

All cancelled.

10:14 Plymouth to Penzance due 12:12
13:14 Penzance to Plymouth due 15:10
13:39 Plymouth to Penzance due 15:40
15:52 Penzance to Plymouth due 17:47
Thu, 27 August 10:14 Plymouth to Penzance due 12:12
Thu, 27 August 13:14 Penzance to Plymouth due 15:10
Thu, 27 August 13:39 Plymouth to Penzance due 15:40
Thu, 27 August 15:52 Penzance to Plymouth due 17:47
Fri, 28 August 10:14 Plymouth to Penzance due 12:12
Fri, 28 August 13:14 Penzance to Plymouth due 15:10
Fri, 28 August 13:39 Plymouth to Penzance due 15:40
Fri, 28 August 15:52 Penzance to Plymouth due 17:47

Re: UK population exceeds 60 million - BBC report, 24th August 2006
In "Campaigns for new and improved services" [378731/32402/28]
Posted by Noggin at 08:51, 26th August 2026
 
Presumably we are all interested in how this affects the railways of the South West, so it's probably worth considering:

1) The vast majority of the population growth has been in England
2) There's considerable long-distance internal migration going on from metropolitan areas like London and the Midlands to places like Devon and Cornwall.
3) Almost all of the people migrating internally are working, or affluent retired
4) A lot of these people are self-employed or working remotely, and more likely to be using rail than locals, particularly travelling long-distance by rail for work
5) The children of internal migrants are also more likely than "natives" to go to sixth form college and even to university whilst living at home, which again, boosts rail in many cases

So whilst the population growth has definitely boosted populations of the big cities, at the same time, internal migration is considerably boosting the case for rail improvements throughout the southwest
 

Re: Some Site Statistics
In "News, Help and Assistance" [378730/10588/29]
Posted by grahame at 08:49, 26th August 2026
Already liked by JohnM
 
  22917 Iran
  27139 Brazil
Interesting; wonder why those are so much higher?

You have triggered my interest to dig deeper

:
firstgreatwestern@www:~/httpdocs/coffeeshop$ grep 'in Brazil$' gotcha.txt | sort | uniq -c | sort -n | tail
    289 Brasília in Brazil
    289 São José dos Campos in Brazil
    327 Juazeiro in Brazil
    372 Aracaju in Brazil
    533 Belo Horizonte in Brazil
    624 Pindamonhangaba in Brazil
    801 Recife in Brazil
    857 Rio de Janeiro in Brazil
   1997 São Paulo in Brazil
   3179  in Brazil
firstgreatwestern@www:~/httpdocs/coffeeshop$ grep 'in Iran$' gotcha.txt | sort | uniq -c | sort -n | tail
      1 Rasht in Iran
      5 Babol in Iran
      7 Isfahan in Iran
   1170  in Iran
  22117 Tehran in Iran

It would appear that the requests from Brazil come from all over the country, but those from Iran are concentrated.  Could relate somewhat to how the country's internets are set up, and whether accesses might be via or through VPNs which give lie to real source locations.

Re: Some Site Statistics
In "News, Help and Assistance" [378729/10588/29]
Posted by JohnM at 08:29, 26th August 2026
Already liked by GBM
 
  22917 Iran
  27139 Brazil
Interesting; wonder why those are so much higher?

Re: Some Site Statistics
In "News, Help and Assistance" [378728/10588/29]
Posted by grahame at 08:25, 26th August 2026
Already liked by JohnM
 
About 10,000 access requests per day (out of 380,000) denied based on them being identified as robots coming from distanct counties who really can't have much interest in rail in the South West of England. Here is a log of the number of accesses denied from the countries we see the most of such activity from.
    341 Bulgaria
   3511 Vietnam
   7070 Australia
   9627 China
  22917 Iran
  27139 Brazil

Of the 380,000 requests, 190,000 (yesterday) were answered by our receptionist server and the othet 190,000 were passed on to the worker machine.

"News" only - I am happy with numbers like this.  I was looking only because I am tidying up log files!

Re: Delay due to congestion
In "North Downs Line" [378727/31963/16]
Posted by CyclingSid at 08:04, 26th August 2026
 
There have also been various track inspections between Guildford and Redhill in the last week or so. Needless to say will not have made things for catching a flight at Gatwick.

Re: UK population exceeds 60 million - BBC report, 24th August 2006
In "Campaigns for new and improved services" [378726/32402/28]
Posted by CyclingSid at 07:59, 26th August 2026
Already liked by Mark A, JayMac
 
Looking at the headline in this morning's paper about pensions and the triple lock, the demographics are important.

In this case the dependency ratio, the ratio of those paying tax (mainly of working age) to those benefiting from the tax income (mainly children and older people). The dependency ratio has been heading in the "wrong" direction for years, but governments appear to have been looking elsewhere.

Looking at origins my ancestors were French Huguenot refugees 300 years ago. As somebody in Northern Ireland said recently we are all immigrants. A good place to look at for this sort of thing is what is now Tower Hamlets. The Huguenots settled in about C17th, followed by the Jews as a result of various pogroms in eastern Europe, followed by Bangladeshis, Somalis, ... As the situation of each group improved they moved out to better areas, often to Essex.

In more recent times Hounslow is interesting because of Heathrow. In the days of the passenger survey for estimating migration people tended to say Hounslow was there destination.

Re: Swindon <-> Westbury service updates and amendments, ongoing discussion - 2026
In "TransWilts line - Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury, Salisbury" [378725/31359/18]
Posted by grahame at 07:33, 26th August 2026
 
05:11 Gloucester to Southampton Central due 08:10

05:11 Gloucester to Southampton Central due 08:10 has been delayed at Gloucester and is now 12 minutes late.
This is due to earlier engineering works not being finished on time.

Time made up along the way - the connection at Trowbridge into Bristol was made, as was the connection into the Weymouth train at Westbury. Good.

Re: Swindon <-> Westbury service updates and amendments, ongoing discussion - 2026
In "TransWilts line - Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury, Salisbury" [378724/31359/18]
Posted by grahame at 05:47, 26th August 2026
 
05:11 Gloucester to Southampton Central due 08:10

05:11 Gloucester to Southampton Central due 08:10 has been delayed at Gloucester and is now 12 minutes late.
This is due to earlier engineering works not being finished on time.

Re: East West Rail Timetable
In "Chiltern Railways services" [378723/29004/44]
Posted by grahame at 05:45, 26th August 2026
Already liked by Mark A, Witham Bobby
 
Still awaiting the return of passenger carrying services between Oxford amd Bletchley ... here's a look to how it basin was in 1965




Edit to correct typo, for clarity. CfN.

 
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