Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 15:46, 10th April 2007 |
Bristol Evening Post Article (link below.)
http://www.epost.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=145365&command=displayContent&sourceNode=145191&contentPK=17044657&folderPk=83726&pNodeId=144922
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 17:43, 3rd May 2007 |
Historic photos.
http://www.portisheadrailwaygroup.org/html/photos4.html
Photos of track clearance work (halted by Network Rail.)
http://www.portisheadrailwaygroup.org/html/photos-track_clearance.html
Photos of the current working line between Portbury Docks and the main line in Bristol.
http://www.portisheadrailwaygroup.org/html/photos-current_line.html
Photos of the line from Portishead to Portbury as it is today.
http://www.portisheadrailwaygroup.org/html/photos1.html
Portishead photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/portishead.php
Sheepway photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/sheepway.php
Portbury photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/portbury.php
Marsh Lane photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/marshlane.php
Pill photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/pill.php
Pill Viaduct photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/pillviaduct.php
"Paradise Bottom" Viaduct photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/paradisebottom.php
Netham Quarry photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/nethamquarries3.php
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/nethamquarries2.php
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/nethamquarries1.php
Stoneleigh Camp photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/stoneleighcamp.php
Nightingale Valley photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/nightingalevalley.php
Clifton Bridge No1 Tunnel photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/cliftonbridgeno1tunnel.php
Rownham Hill photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/rownhamhill.php
Clifton Bridge photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/cliftonbridge.php
"A Bridge in Ashton" photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/ashtonbridge.php
Ashton Gate Station photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/ashtongate.php
Ashton Junction photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/ashtonjunction.php
Ashton Drive photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/ashtondrive.php
South Liberty Lane - West Depot photos.
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/southlibertylane.php
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 11:51, 30th June 2007 |
The main concerns of people living in Portishead are the railway and the local transport infrastructure , a survey has revealed (link below.)
http://www.thewestonmercury.co.uk/content/twm/news/story.aspx?brand=Westonmercury&category=news&tBrand=westonmercury&tCategory=znews&itemid=WeED27%20Jun%202007%2014%3A01%3A56%3A370
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Graz at 21:02, 30th June 2007 |
Depending on the extent of the survey, 1 out of 4 people is more than enough to justify a passenger service. It's clear to me enough people want it and that it would be well used and also cut traffic to this growing town. So why isn't it being pushed forward more? Surely it won't cost too much, to begin with, to build a small station at Portishead, upgrade the line, and operate a single pacer doing a hourly run to Bristol Temple Meads. Especially seeing the amount of money that gets poured into other 'projects'!
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 10:17, 2nd July 2007 |
FGW and Portishead Railway Group have been in discussions for quite some time.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 10:05, 21st July 2007 |
Portishead Railway Group will be having a stand at the Portishead Flower Show and Country Fair - Fri 27 - Sat 28 July - Opening times - 2:00 to 8:00 pm on Friday , 10:00 - 6:00 pm on Saturday.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 11:53, 29th August 2007 |
From Portishead Railway Group :
During the last month some of our members along with residents of Portishead wrote to the Government Office of the South West (GOSW) asking in their own words why, with the chronic transport problems in Portishead and the Gordano Valley, the line to Portishead was not open to passengers. Dr Liam Fox MP described Portishead in Parliament as "the largest town at the end of a cul-de-sac"
Below is GOSW reply
Dear xx
"Your comments and concerns have been noted. The re-opening of the line was considered as part of the Greater Bristol Strategic Transport Study (GBSTS). The final report can be found on our website at
http://www.gosw.gov.uk/gosw/transport/regtransstrat/gbsts/?a=42496.
The study looked at the problems and issues in the area and considered many options for addressing them. The conclusion of the study indicated that a showcase bus route is the recommended scheme for this corridor in the short and medium term and possibly a rapid transit scheme in the longer term. The report was presented to the partners of the study, including the four Greater Bristol authorities, to look at the findings and investigate a way forward.
We await the outcome of their deliberations.
Yours sincerely"
Given that we had been told by the local authorities that it was GOSW that was the stumbling block. GOSW are saying it's the local Authorities that need to investigate a way forward !!!. As GOSW seem to be passing the buck members and residents are writing back asking if GOSW could answer their specific queries like how the hell does a 'showcase bus route work, between Bristol and Portishead, along the A369'
Also earlier this year I had a similar reply from the Dft Rail Sponsor Group saying that the opening of the line was nothing to do with them but down to the local authority. When North Somerset Council were questioned they said "we don't do rail, we do schools, roads etc"
Since Bus de-regulation and Rail privatisation were introduced it seems no one has the guts or balls to make any rational / sensible decisions on our transport needs apart from the mantra "it has to be bus"
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 14:29, 5th September 2007 |
7.30 pm , Folk Hall , High Street , Portishead.
New members welcome.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 15:46, 18th September 2007 |
From Portishead Railway Group :
New 2007 petition
Although not initiated by the Portishead Railway Group, we support the petition raised by Mike Sperring and would like as many people as possible to sign it. Please click here >> http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/portisheadrail/
David Jolley petition
A separate petition raised by David Jolley gained 4917 signatures. It asked for changes to a Portishead traffic light junction and for the railway to be reopened. He submitted the petition to North Somerset Council on Tues 27 Sept 2005.
PHRP petition
An e-petition to Bristol City Council was raised in January 2005.
The petition read: ^The undersigned request that Bristol City Council seek the reopening of the Bristol to Portishead Railway as a matter of urgency, by incorporating the reopening of the line into their present and future transport policy and lobbying all agencies concerned with the reopening of the railway line.^
The petition closed on 29 March having collected 327 on-line signatures. It was decided also to produce a paper version which received over 1500 signatures.
It was then decided to take the opportunity of also submitting the petition to North Somerset Council and Portishead Town Council.
The petition was presented to Portishead Town Council on Weds 6 July.
It was presented to Bristol City Council on Weds 12 July by Matt Skidmore (PHRP Co-Chairman) through Councillor Helen Holland and referred to the Executive Member for Transport & Development Control for consideration and response.
It was presented to North Somerset Council on Tues 26 July by Jean Lord, Chair of Portishead Town Council.
An article on this can be found in the link below.
http://www.clevedonmercury.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=223432&command=displayContent&sourceNode=224133&contentPK=18381462&folderPk=104742&pNodeId=224152
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Graz at 19:54, 18th September 2007 |
Signed with pleasure.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 16:08, 29th September 2007 |
More on this in the link below.
http://thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=145365&command=displayContent&sourceNode=145191&contentPK=18525832&folderPk=83726&pNodeId=144922
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by martyjon at 17:42, 29th September 2007 |
I remember the 'new' station at Portishead which was built in the 50's to replace the original Portishead station, the site of which was required for the extension of Portishead power station, now another memory of the past. A modern building then with colour light signalling. I never actually travelled the line until after it closed to passengers. I dont know the ins and outs of the present situation but my proposal would be to provide a Park and Ride station outside of Portishead more or less at the Portbury site of the old Portbury Station House which is now a private residence. I would provide one station on the line at Pill and my proposal would be to provide 3 up services to Bristol in the morning peak at say 0700, 0730 and 0800, the units travelling down to Portishead as a 3 unit combo, in or out of service, and which split into the three seperate units to form the up services. In the evening peak 3 down services at say 1600, 1700 and 1800 from BTM, returning as a 3 unit combo if there is insufficient time for a unit to return to Parson Street station at least. My proposal would require the installation of a facing locking point at Portbury Junction operated the train crew using the single line token as the key to release the Ground Frame. There would also be a need for a single line token release instrument on this branch line to complement the single line token release instrument on the section that proceeds into the Portbury Docks complex. At Parsons Street station a single line token cabinet would be needed on both platforms similar to the situations at Maiden Newton on the Heart of Wessex line and St. Budeaux, Plymouth for the Gunnislake branch. The current coal and car trains over this branch is at present at a level that would preclude the operation of a greater number of passenger services.
I'm dreaming again.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 11:50, 12th November 2007 |
7.30 pm , Folk Hall , High Street , Portishead.
New members welcome.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 16:06, 4th January 2008 |
Here is the response to the Portishead petition :
The Government's priorities for the railway are set out in the White Paper - Delivering a Sustainable Railway. This is backed up by the High Level Output Specification - a statement of what the Government wishes to buy from the railway industry over the period 2009-2014.
Priorities for this period are to continue to improve safety, improve performance and increase capacity. In respect of the latter, the Government has stated that an additional 1300 new carriages would be added to the network. Some of these will be allocated to services in the Bristol area and the city will also benefit from the investment in the Inter City Express Project which will replace the diesel High Speed Trains. However, the White Paper also states that the 'Government does not envisage changes in the pattern or level of demand large enough in the HLOS period to justify developing or opening new regional lines'.
The Government, therefore, does not include the re-opening lines as a priority. However, local transport authorities can consider whether the re-opening of a line is the best way to meet regional and local transport objectives. In Greater Bristol, the four local authorities are working together as the West of England Partnership. They have undertaken the Greater Bristol Strategic Transport Study to identify priorities for investment to address issues such as congestion and air quality. This study did not propose the re-opening of the Portishead line as a priority, but it remains open to the Partnership to review this and any other elements of the strategy at any time.
Priorities for this period are to continue to improve safety, improve performance and increase capacity. In respect of the latter, the Government has stated that an additional 1300 new carriages would be added to the network. Some of these will be allocated to services in the Bristol area and the city will also benefit from the investment in the Inter City Express Project which will replace the diesel High Speed Trains. However, the White Paper also states that the 'Government does not envisage changes in the pattern or level of demand large enough in the HLOS period to justify developing or opening new regional lines'.
The Government, therefore, does not include the re-opening lines as a priority. However, local transport authorities can consider whether the re-opening of a line is the best way to meet regional and local transport objectives. In Greater Bristol, the four local authorities are working together as the West of England Partnership. They have undertaken the Greater Bristol Strategic Transport Study to identify priorities for investment to address issues such as congestion and air quality. This study did not propose the re-opening of the Portishead line as a priority, but it remains open to the Partnership to review this and any other elements of the strategy at any time.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 14:55, 15th January 2008 |
Quote from the link below :
http://thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=145365&command=displayContent&sourceNode=145191&contentPK=19542083&folderPk=83726&pNodeId=144922
Real commitment needs to be given to re-opening the railway otherwise Portishead will eventually grind to a halt
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by dog box at 08:53, 17th January 2008 |
To get anything to happen peole NEED to take on Board what Andrew Haines said this week about a the formation of a strategic transport authority otherwise we are going nowhere
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 10:30, 17th January 2008 |
To get anything to happen peole NEED to take on Board what Andrew Haines said this week about a the formation of a strategic transport authority otherwise we are going nowhere
I think it is important to note that the Greater Bristol Strategic Transport Authority initiative did not originate from Andrew Haines, but has in fact been around for some time (example FOSBR 2006 link below.)
http://www.fosbr.org.uk/Birmingham.htm
It is good that he supports it, though.
Having taken into account submissions from FOSBR and many others, the Regional Spatial Strategy inspector's report favours a Greater Bristol Transport Authority (link below.)
http://www.fosbr.org.uk/EIP.htm
Interestingly, the report goes on to support some involvement of West Wiltshire.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 12:01, 17th January 2008 |
Article link.
http://thisissomerset.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=147472&command=displayContent&sourceNode=243687&home=yes&more_nodeId1=242222&contentPK=19580980
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 11:35, 18th January 2008 |
BBC article link.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7195561.stm
Quotes :
North Somerset councillor Elfan Ap Rees said the fight was not over.
"We will continue to put pressure on them and we are revisiting earlier feasibility studies to prove the point," he said.
"We need to improve the links from Portishead into Bristol and into the north fringe. We cannot carry on with the situation as it is.
"And we don't expect to have to put money into something which at the end of the day is the fault of the government because they have failed to provide an adequate highway and transport system in North Somerset."
"We will continue to put pressure on them and we are revisiting earlier feasibility studies to prove the point," he said.
"We need to improve the links from Portishead into Bristol and into the north fringe. We cannot carry on with the situation as it is.
"And we don't expect to have to put money into something which at the end of the day is the fault of the government because they have failed to provide an adequate highway and transport system in North Somerset."
Bristol Evening Post article link.
http://thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=145365&command=displayContent&sourceNode=145191&contentPK=19588127&folderPk=83726&pNodeId=144922
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 22:17, 31st January 2008 |
A three-mile section of defunct train track between Portishead and Portbury could be bought by North Somerset Council - to safeguard its future use as a possible rail link for the town (link below.)
http://thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=145365&command=displayContent&sourceNode=145191&contentPK=19725891&folderPk=83726&pNodeId=144922
The section of railway, which runs between the former station at Portbury and Portishead, is owned by the British Railways Board (Residuary) Ltd, set up to manage British Rail's remaining assets when it was sold off in the 1990s.
After a consultation and review in 2006, a recommendation was made that the land be sold and North Somerset Council was given first option.
North Somerset Council executive member for strategic planning, highways and economic development, Elfan Ap Rees, said:
"We are looking at buying this land to protect the future of the railway.
"From our point of view this would be a real step towards developing a high-speed link between Portishead and Bristol.
"The British Railways Board has agreed to sell the land and has given us first option on it."
"From our point of view this would be a real step towards developing a high-speed link between Portishead and Bristol.
"The British Railways Board has agreed to sell the land and has given us first option on it."
Mr Ap Rees said that if the council was not to buy the land, developers could snap it up instead - putting the re-opening of the railway at risk.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 10:08, 12th February 2008 |
Folk Hall, High Street, Portishead on Tues 19 February 2008 7:30 pm.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 22:57, 19th February 2008 |
A water taxi scheme to take people from Portishead to Bristol by river should be considered as an alternative to re-opening the growing town's rail link, according to a leading councillor (link below.)
http://thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=144913&command=displayContent&sourceNode=231190&home=yes&more_nodeId1=144922&contentPK=19914598
North Somerset Council chairman David Shopland pressed members of Portishead and North Weston Town Council to look at the feasibility of introducing water taxis for commuters along the River Avon.
Councillor Shopland said any scheme to re-open a three-mile section of railway track from Portishead to Portbury was likely to cost more than nearly ^30 million (figure sure to be disputed - Lee) and suggested water travel would be a cheaper and more environmentally-friendly option.
The idea involves building a large damn at the mouth of the River Avon near the Avonmouth Bridge to keep a consistent level of water at all times. A park and ride could then be built either at Avonmouth or Pill where people from Portishead could leave their cars and pick up the water taxi.
His suggestions came at the same time as Portishead Railway Group, which has been campaigning for the re-opening of the rail link in the town for several years, made a presentation on progress of its campaign to councillors.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by John R at 08:34, 20th February 2008 |
Dam the Avon Gorge? That sounds contraversial and expensive. Makes restoring 3 miles of railway look like childsplay.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 11:21, 20th February 2008 |
Quote from Alan Matthews, chairman of the Portishead Railway Group (link below) :
http://thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=145365&command=displayContent&sourceNode=145191&contentPK=19925669&folderPk=83726&pNodeId=144922
"To go by water taxi would take hours to get to Bristol whereas reinstating the railway line would be a much quicker commuting solution.
"To get from Portishead to Bristol Temple Meads would be 28-30 minutes by train taking commuters into the largest office building area in Bristol.
"If you take workers by water taxi how do they get into the town centre or to their offices elsewhere in Bristol, such as by Temple Meads?
"Also, there is the issue with cars still using the main Portishead road, the A369 to get to the water taxi service, so the roads would still be congested.
"First Great Western has told the council it will cost ^20m to rebuild the line and the Greater Bristol Strategic Transport study says ^29m.
"This sounds absurd to me when in South Wales they have built six stations and 18 miles of track for ^30m.
"To get from Portishead to Bristol Temple Meads would be 28-30 minutes by train taking commuters into the largest office building area in Bristol.
"If you take workers by water taxi how do they get into the town centre or to their offices elsewhere in Bristol, such as by Temple Meads?
"Also, there is the issue with cars still using the main Portishead road, the A369 to get to the water taxi service, so the roads would still be congested.
"First Great Western has told the council it will cost ^20m to rebuild the line and the Greater Bristol Strategic Transport study says ^29m.
"This sounds absurd to me when in South Wales they have built six stations and 18 miles of track for ^30m.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by John R at 11:33, 20th February 2008 |
and all those 18 miles had been disused for years, and it included 3 miles of double track.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Graz at 12:56, 20th February 2008 |
It really makes me wonder (and worry) how crackpots like Mr Shopland got into the council in the first place. Has he done research into the cost of this, vs the cost of opening the railway, or whether such a scheme would actually be feasible? I think not...
...was likely to cost more than nearly ^30 million...
"More than nearly"? Wouldn't be susprised if this was his exact quote! Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 07:43, 23rd February 2008 |
Apparently, Bristol's water transport system could be like Venice in 10 years with the right investment, according to ferry boat operator Rob Salvidge (link below.)
http://thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=145365&command=displayContent&sourceNode=145191&contentPK=19948245&folderPk=83726&pNodeId=144922
This week Mr Salvidge invited city bosses and figures for a trip around the docks to share his vision of the future of public transport. On board were council leader Helen Holland, architect George Ferguson, Broadmead boss John Hirst, Andrew Griffiths of First and Matthew Tanner of the ss Great Britain, among others.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Btline at 18:30, 24th February 2008 |
The absolute idiot!
I'm sorry, but that has to be the worst idea ever!
Soon, they'll suggest "waterbuses" for the Thames Valley!!!!!
"Yes," says FGW "with water buses, we can sell off the slow lines between London and Reading and a dual carriageway can be built there. In fact, we can go one further and stop all HSTs at Didcot and waterbus people to London. Tee Hee Hee, then we can sell of the fast lines as well, build a motorway and knock down Paddignton station, build multi billion pound flats and sell them!!!!"
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 18:32, 7th March 2008 |
Have I "killed" this topic?
As far as I am concerned, no, although your last post was rather entertaining.
I simply havent heard any more on this since, that's all. Maybe other forum members know more?
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 01:52, 8th March 2008 |
No, I think the idea of damming the River Avon, just to run a water taxi from Avonmouth to central Bristol, has been 'sunk without trace'.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Btline at 16:57, 8th March 2008 |
No, I think the idea of damming the River Avon, just to run a water taxi from Avonmouth to central Bristol, has been 'sunk without trace'.
Excellent.
Perhaps they will move onto something more worthwhile!
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by dking at 10:24, 12th March 2008 |
Our conference last Saturday (see 'Social Enterprise and the Railways' posting) suggested the idea of using Parry People Movers on that line - having them supplied by a 'Social Enterprise RoSCo' and operated either by FGW (as the Stourbridge Town line is operated by the local TOC) or by a communuty organisation. With a bit of tweaking it would be eminently suitable. Alex Lawrie <alex@somerset.coop> was the speaker - John Parry was in the audience.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 10:34, 12th March 2008 |
Our conference last Saturday (see 'Social Enterprise and the Railways' posting) suggested the idea of using Parry People Movers on that line - having them supplied by a 'Social Enterprise RoSCo' and operated either by FGW (as the Stourbridge Town line is operated by the local TOC) or by a communuty organisation. With a bit of tweaking it would be eminently suitable. Alex Lawrie <alex@somerset.coop> was the speaker - John Parry was in the audience.
See quote below :
Another new idea was outlined by Alex Lawrie of Somerset Co-operative Development. The agency was working with Parry People Movers who manufacture a form of lightweight tram which operates on existing (but segregated) rail lines without external overhead lines. Alex and PPM were exploring with other agencies the possibilities of supporting local and community rail transport operators by entering into leasing arrangements to enable them to run everyday passenger transport services.
More on Alex Lawrie in the link below.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=677.msg2442#msg2442
Sounds like a very interesting conference.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Graz at 11:06, 12th March 2008 |
Very interesting idea- I can really see it happening if Parry People Movers were allowed on the main line and into Temple Meads. There seems to be a lot of capacity for terminating trains from the West at Bristol TM- platform 4 is hardly used at all these days.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by eightf48544 at 14:39, 12th March 2008 |
Why trams on segrgated lines? Bristol seems an ideal place to run trams on heavy rail.
You would have trams using Portishead possibly to Aston Junction and the docks or BTM and then coming off onto the street and then picking up the Severn Beach branch somewhere and possibly following the road out towards Yate and picking up the old Midland alingment and terminating in Tytherington.
You could also electrify the heavy rail parts at 25KV in anticipation of mainline electrification and use dual voltage trams. There are also ED trams available if you din't want to say electrify on either voltage to Portishaed or Tytherington.
Trams could also run Avonmuth Henbury Filton back to BTM. They could be a segrated track if the 4 tracks down the hill from Filton were restored.
Why are we so scared of trams. They are the best congetion relieving device available, especialy if they have priority at traffic lights. Who'd want to drive if you risk getting your car hit by a tram (as happened to poor old boy when I was on a tram in Rostock) very definitely Tram 1 Car 0 there wasn't a scratch on the tram, but you should have seen the dent in his door.
Also why would you drive if you had fast, quite, efficient and civilised public transport available?
There are absolutely no health and safety issues involved in doing this trams can be equipped with ERTMS just as trains will be. To say a tram is not strong enough to withstand a collision with a freight train is stupid a 142 wouldn't come off too well either. But that's beside the point you ensure he system doesn't allow a tram to collide with a freight train.
As for pedestrians go and see how the locals dodge in between the trams in Picadilly Gardens.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by grahame at 17:36, 12th March 2008 |
I was at that conference - yes, very interesting and indeed Mr Parry himself was there. Problem with H&S issues on running a lightweight such as a PPM on a line with regular trains would preclude it coming into Temple Meads (a gent just behind me poked me and suggested that it would suit the TransWilts until this matter came up ... but there are other issues there which make a 150 / 14x / 153 more suitable)
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by John R at 20:14, 12th March 2008 |
I think the capacity of a PPM would be inadequate for Portishead. Given the need to leave paths for the freight services (which after all were the reason and justification for the rebuild to Portbury), the most frequent the service could be would be half hourly (and I suspect even the infrastructure improvements required for that will be more than is currently envisaged.) So a Class 150 capable of holding 200 including standing would be needed.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 21:25, 12th March 2008 |
Given the need to leave paths for the freight services (which after all were the reason and justification for the rebuild to Portbury), the most frequent the service could be would be half hourly (and I suspect even the infrastructure improvements required for that will be more than is currently envisaged.)
My gut reaction is to go with John on that. When we looked into the feasibility of running an all-day half-hourly service to Portishead, we came down on the side of the following desirable enhancements :
This upgrade would include the provision of two short double - track sections on the Portishead line , in the Ashton Gate & Pill areas , as proposed by Andrew Griffiths of First Great Western. This would allow 2 freight and 4 passenger trains (in total, not in each direction) to run on the line per hour.
This, of course, would be in addition to the work needed to allow passenger services to run in the first place.
Another option would be to run an hourly off-peak Portishead-Avonmouth service, with a 2 train per hour Parson Street-Portishead shuttle service operating during the peaks, as envisaged in the link below.
http://www.raildocuments.org.uk/jan08/stage2.doc
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by John R at 21:36, 12th March 2008 |
I think that's why the cost of ^30m is likely. You think what's it's costing to rebuild 3 miles of line and a platform at Axminster - (^18m I recall). Here you would have at least one platform, 3 miles rebuilt, a junction at Portbury, one or two loops, (which would presumably have to be freight train length not unit length so that the freight service could be held in the loop whilst the passenger service passed) and general fettling to give a slightly higher line speed. Plus signalling changes. It's depressing, but I can easily see ^30m being needed in this day and age of boiling frogs.
Does anyone know how many freight services use the line each day? I'm always seeing car trains or coal trains at TM. Presumably they have fixed paths elsewhere on the network, so that would need to be taken into consideration too.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 22:01, 12th March 2008 |
Does anyone know how many freight services use the line each day? I'm always seeing car trains or coal trains at TM. Presumably they have fixed paths elsewhere on the network, so that would need to be taken into consideration too.
According to Network Rail, up to 5 freight trains each way per day currently use the Portbury line. However, up to 10 additional freight trains each way are planned.
It is also worth noting that the take-up rate of paths is 95% for container trains and 45% for coal trains.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by John R at 22:27, 12th March 2008 |
Not bad for a line that only reopened 5 years ago. Now if that 5 becomes 15 then surely there will be justification in reinstating the down relief as far as Parson St? I presume if a Portbury bound freight service is held awaiting an up passenger service to pass before it can enter the branch then by the time it gets going again it must block the main line for around 10 minutes in total?
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 22:47, 12th March 2008 |
Not bad for a line that only reopened 5 years ago. Now if that 5 becomes 15 then surely there will be justification in reinstating the down relief as far as Parson St? I presume if a Portbury bound freight service is held awaiting an up passenger service to pass before it can enter the branch then by the time it gets going again it must block the main line for around 10 minutes in total?
Certainly when we looked at a half-hourly Portishead service, we did so in the context of a future network that included resignalling and provision of more lines into Bristol Temple Meads.
My personal view is that Portishead should start off with a lesser frequency than that (I give an example proposal above) , prove the demand is there (which I think it quickly would) and then push for improvements as part of an overall Greater Bristol package.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by eightf48544 at 10:02, 13th March 2008 |
Not bad for a line that only reopened 5 years ago. Now if that 5 becomes 15 then surely there will be justification in reinstating the down relief as far as Parson St? I presume if a Portbury bound freight service is held awaiting an up passenger service to pass before it can enter the branch then by the time it gets going again it must block the main line for around 10 minutes in total?
Certainly when we looked at a half-hourly Portishead service, we did so in the context of a future network that included resignalling and provision of more lines into Bristol Temple Meads.
My personal view is that Portishead should start off with a lesser frequency than that (I give an example proposal above) , prove the demand is there (which I think it quickly would) and then push for improvements as part of an overall Greater Bristol package.
I can see Lee's point off view that it would be better to go for the least costly option to get passenger services going. However with the boiling frog syndrome mentioned previously what might be ^30 million at today's prices will be ^60 million in 5 years time so go for the ultimate solution it will actually be cheaper in the long term. However, you will have to change the Treasury's mindset of requiring payback from day one so good luck
There are ways of cutting station costs and providing disabled access for both directions. This is done by having one long platform with the loop entering half way. The loop can then be longer than the platform. It's quite disconcerting to run into the platform with the train waiting in the other half of the platform, stop and then start off towards it only to veer off into the loop. I've got the video to prove it.
Thus two passenger can pass, or a passenger can pass or overtake a freight which remains in the loop. With suitable siganlling you could have up freight in the loop a down passenger in the loop platform and an up passenger arrivng in the other half of the platform. The freight then leaves and the up passenger follows on the block. Thus three trains with loop.
It ought to posible with the fabulous ERTMS system which is being trialled on the Cambrian. It should be incrediably cheap to install as it will use standard components from several manufactures which all Eurpean railways will use when resignalling. If remember my economics it's called economies of scale whch like many economic theories never seems to work for railways..
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 10:20, 13th March 2008 |
I can see Lee's point off view that it would be better to go for the least costly option to get passenger services going. However with the boiling frog syndrome mentioned previously what might be ^30 million at today's prices will be ^60 million in 5 years time so go for the ultimate solution it will actually be cheaper in the long term. However, you will have to change the Treasury's mindset of requiring payback from day one so good luck
Unfortunately (if they ever approve funding for it at all) the DfT is likely to consider the cheaper (and more short-termist) option as being "best value for the taxpayer", and their attitude does shape my view on how best to get things going for Portishead. I would obviously prefer that they took a more long-term perspective.
However, their recent reply to the petition to the PM does not inspire confidence in this regard :
Here is the response to the Portishead petition :
: PM's Office
The Government's priorities for the railway are set out in the White Paper - Delivering a Sustainable Railway. This is backed up by the High Level Output Specification - a statement of what the Government wishes to buy from the railway industry over the period 2009-2014.
Priorities for this period are to continue to improve safety, improve performance and increase capacity. In respect of the latter, the Government has stated that an additional 1300 new carriages would be added to the network. Some of these will be allocated to services in the Bristol area and the city will also benefit from the investment in the Inter City Express Project which will replace the diesel High Speed Trains. However, the White Paper also states that the 'Government does not envisage changes in the pattern or level of demand large enough in the HLOS period to justify developing or opening new regional lines'.
The Government, therefore, does not include the re-opening lines as a priority. However, local transport authorities can consider whether the re-opening of a line is the best way to meet regional and local transport objectives. In Greater Bristol, the four local authorities are working together as the West of England Partnership. They have undertaken the Greater Bristol Strategic Transport Study to identify priorities for investment to address issues such as congestion and air quality. This study did not propose the re-opening of the Portishead line as a priority, but it remains open to the Partnership to review this and any other elements of the strategy at any time.
Priorities for this period are to continue to improve safety, improve performance and increase capacity. In respect of the latter, the Government has stated that an additional 1300 new carriages would be added to the network. Some of these will be allocated to services in the Bristol area and the city will also benefit from the investment in the Inter City Express Project which will replace the diesel High Speed Trains. However, the White Paper also states that the 'Government does not envisage changes in the pattern or level of demand large enough in the HLOS period to justify developing or opening new regional lines'.
The Government, therefore, does not include the re-opening lines as a priority. However, local transport authorities can consider whether the re-opening of a line is the best way to meet regional and local transport objectives. In Greater Bristol, the four local authorities are working together as the West of England Partnership. They have undertaken the Greater Bristol Strategic Transport Study to identify priorities for investment to address issues such as congestion and air quality. This study did not propose the re-opening of the Portishead line as a priority, but it remains open to the Partnership to review this and any other elements of the strategy at any time.
The official view (as stated by the Government Office Of The South West) is that a showcase bus route is the recommended scheme for this corridor in the short and medium term and possibly a rapid transit scheme in the longer term. Indeed, funding for the Portishead showcase bus route (and others) was approved in July 2006 (links below.)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/4747277.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/5157322.stm
My guess, as depressing as it sounds, is that they would prefer the railway line to remain open for Portbury freight only.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 08:25, 31st March 2008 |
Tues 20 May 2008, 7:30 pm, Methodist Church High St - opposite White Lion, Portishead.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 23:35, 8th April 2008 |
This topic is a sideshoot from a discussion about Severn Beach at
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=2078.0
I felt it merited its own thread and was starting to get a life of its own! - Graham
Bristol City Council Press Release :
Bristol City Council is investing ^395k pa on providing more train services on the Severn Beach Line under a three year contract with First Great Western, starting on 18 May 2008.
The Severn Beach Line has enjoyed a surge in popularity over the last 10 years and now carries over half a million passengers a year.
Bristol City Council is investing ^395k pa on providing more train services on the Severn Beach Line under a three year contract with First Great Western, starting on 18 May 2008.
The Severn Beach Line has enjoyed a surge in popularity over the last 10 years and now carries over half a million passengers a year.
... and, with a similarly suitable level of 'investment', how many passengers could even now be enjoying train services from Portishead to Bristol?
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 07:37, 9th April 2008 |
Bristol City Council Press Release :
Bristol City Council is investing ^395k pa on providing more train services on the Severn Beach Line under a three year contract with First Great Western, starting on 18 May 2008.
The Severn Beach Line has enjoyed a surge in popularity over the last 10 years and now carries over half a million passengers a year.
Bristol City Council is investing ^395k pa on providing more train services on the Severn Beach Line under a three year contract with First Great Western, starting on 18 May 2008.
The Severn Beach Line has enjoyed a surge in popularity over the last 10 years and now carries over half a million passengers a year.
... and, with a similarly suitable level of 'investment', how many passengers could even now be enjoying train services from Portishead to Bristol?
Unfortunately, there has been an official view that a showcase bus route is the way forward for the Portishead corridor.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by grahame at 07:56, 9th April 2008 |
Unfortunately, there has been an official view that a showcase bus route is the way forward for the Portishead corridor.
At a risk of being labelled "out of area", I am up in Cambridge at the moment, working just a few hunderd yards from the trackbed of the Cambridge to St Ives line. Used until the 1970s (?), it was then left to moulder and is now being ripped up and a guided busway laid in its place.
The people I'm working with (happen to be two separate companies last week and this) all come in to work by a variety of means - very early, very late, cycle from Ely, motorbike, etc - to overcome the traffic, and I've chosen a hotel based on trafficability rather than what I would normally choose to avoid too much hassle. And they are saying "what's the point of replacing rail" and "why didn't they start with something as simple as extending some trains that terminate at Cambridge through to a science park station?" and "why not simply refurbish the railway / improve that". It certainly seems to me that the guided bus has been foisted on the general user here rather than being their preference, which would have been strongly for a train service!
Lots of questions there and perhaps lessons for Portishead there. Lee or anyone else - do you have a different persepective on this?
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 08:37, 9th April 2008 |
Below is the Government Office Of The South West view on Portishead line re-opening :
: Government Office Of The South West
Your comments and concerns have been noted. The re-opening of the line was considered as part of the Greater Bristol Strategic Transport Study (GBSTS). The final report can be found on our website at
http://www.gosw.gov.uk/gosw/transport/regtransstrat/gbsts/?a=42496.
The study looked at the problems and issues in the area and considered many options for addressing them. The conclusion of the study indicated that a showcase bus route is the recommended scheme for this corridor in the short and medium term and possibly a rapid transit scheme in the longer term. The report was presented to the partners of the study, including the four Greater Bristol authorities, to look at the findings and investigate a way forward.
We await the outcome of their deliberations.
http://www.gosw.gov.uk/gosw/transport/regtransstrat/gbsts/?a=42496.
The study looked at the problems and issues in the area and considered many options for addressing them. The conclusion of the study indicated that a showcase bus route is the recommended scheme for this corridor in the short and medium term and possibly a rapid transit scheme in the longer term. The report was presented to the partners of the study, including the four Greater Bristol authorities, to look at the findings and investigate a way forward.
We await the outcome of their deliberations.
So indeed, something similar to what is currently happening to the Cambridge to St Ives line could happen to the Portishead line in the longer term. More on the Cambridge-St Ives line issue can be found in the links below.
http://www.castiron.org.uk/
http://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/transport/guided/what/
Of course, if you were to do the same thing on the Portishead line, you would have to work out what to do with the growing number of freight trains running (and projected to run in the future) out of Portbury.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by eightf48544 at 09:40, 9th April 2008 |
Of course, if you were to do the same thing on the Portishead line, you would have to work out what to do with the growing number of freight trains running (and projected to run in the future) out of Portbury.
The freight problem is exactly why Portishead is ideal for tram/trains they can easily share the line with freight trains. They can start in the centre of Portishead and run through the streets to connect with the heavy rail and run into Bristol and then onto the streets again. Giving a centre to centre service.
Let's hope they don't approve a busway until the St. Ives scheme has been evaluated. Who knows busways might prove a success!
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 17:40, 9th April 2008 |
Letter from Joe Patrick of FOSBR to the Bristol Evening Post that is relevant to this.
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=144936&command=displayContent&sourceNode=144919&contentPK=20351321&moduleName=InternalSearch&formname=sidebarsearch
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 09:34, 23rd May 2008 |
The next Portishead Railway Group meeting will be held on Tues 19 August 2008, 7:30 pm in the Folk Hall, High Street, Portishead.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by John R at 17:45, 26th May 2008 |
This weekend's Telegraph Property supplement has a feature on Portishead. In it, it describes the commute to Bristol as "20 mins on a good day". Xmas Day maybe, but 45 mins to an hour on a normal working day would be nearer the truth.
I only hope that nobody buys a house in the town on the basis of that information.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 13:49, 20th June 2008 |
The Halcrow study has concluded that it would be feasible to reopen the railway. A full report on the study will be available next month (link below.)
http://www.westpress.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=146238&command=displayContent&sourceNode=146064&contentPK=20907119&folderPk=100268&pNodeId=145795
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by John R at 17:31, 20th June 2008 |
"Only" 6 years? I'm sure it could be running in 3 years if the funding was available.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 20:29, 20th June 2008 |
Agreed, John: just three miles of track to relay (the trackbed is still there), a station to build, and a bit of planning to do with timetables and allocations - and maybe provide some car parking!
It could all be done, if the money - and the will - was there.
Further details are available on the North Somerset Council website, at http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/Transport/news-20080618-portisheadraillink.htm
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by signalandtelegraph at 07:28, 21st June 2008 |
It could all be done, if the money - and the will - was there.
"Only" 6 years? I'm sure it could be running in 3 years if the funding was available.
How can we get Portishead to become part of Wales (or Scotland)? That'll get it sorted!
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by John R at 20:29, 21st June 2008 |
We wouldn't need to - it would already have happened.
Maybe the residents of Portishead could have a refarendum and vote to become part of Wales - free prescriptions too as well, though they probably wouldn't like the fact that station announcements would be in Welsh first.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 20:48, 23rd June 2008 |
The view from Portishead Railway Group (link below.)
http://www.fosbr.org.uk/Portishead.htm
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 22:13, 23rd June 2008 |
... and the view from the Clevedon Mercury:
The most detailed analysis yet of creating a rail link for Portishead has been completed. And it could be full steam ahead for the line as the study shows no insurmountable objects to creating a rail route to Bristol. Rail campaigners and local councillors were given a presentation earlier this week of a feasibility study carried out by consultants on behalf of North Somerset Council. The study and its outcome have been broadly welcomed by rail campaigners.
Portishead Railway Group membership secretary Peter Maliphant said: "We were pleased with the report and pleased there are identifiable steps to move forward. Lots of people said it was good to hear what was possible rather than reasons why we should not do it."
The study looked at several different options, based on one train per hour between Portishead and Bristol Temple Meads, either direct or stopping at interim stations such as Pill and Ashton Gate. It also evaluated the cost of building infrastructure, including a new station for Portishead west of Quays Avenue, and re-laying track between the town and the existing Portbury Dock spur.
Depending on options chosen, detailed calculations show infrastructure is likely to cost between ^7.5 and ^15 million, while annual operating costs would be between ^1.6 and ^2.4 million, of which approximately a third will need to be covered by a subsidy. Identifying funding will now be the subject of ongoing work, as will a more detailed analysis of the route to meet Network Rail rail planning guidance.
See http://www.thisisclevedon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=223432&command=displayContent&sourceNode=224133&contentPK=20909139&folderPk=104742&pNodeId=224152
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 22:28, 24th June 2008 |
In the meantime, more problems for Portishead commuters / residents: no petrol for a month.
Portishead will be without fuel from the end of the month, when its Waitrose garage closes for a refit. The Waitrose garage at Station Road is to shut on Sunday for nearly a month. The nearest filling station is three miles away at the M5's Gordano Services.
Local councillors are concerned the closure will cause inconvenience for local residents and increase traffic on the already congested A369 as people travel to buy fuel.
See http://thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=144913&command=displayContent&sourceNode=231190&home=yes&more_nodeId1=144922&contentPK=20934482
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 18:26, 26th June 2008 |
Public transport campaigners have welcomed news that a study into the viability of reopening Portishead rail line has found no technical obstacles.
North Somerset Council commissioned consultants Halcrow to study the feasibility of restarting rail services from the town and it reported last week, funding permitting, there were no 'show stoppers'.
Its report has been welcomed by the Campaign For Better Transport, which has now called for support from the Government.
Spokesman Alistair Lindsay said: "We hope we can now count on the support of rail minister Tom Harris in agreeing to subsidise the route and its integration into the Greater Bristol transport network."
See http://www.thisisclevedon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=223432&command=displayContent&sourceNode=224133&contentPK=20958326&folderPk=104742&pNodeId=224152
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 22:42, 18th August 2008 |
"There is more light at the end of the tunnel for Portishead Railway as the old tracks have been safeguarded from development. North Somerset Council has this week agreed to purchase the three miles of track for ^75,000 from the remnants of British Rail."
For full details, see http://www.thisisclevedon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=223432&command=displayContent&sourceNode=241560&home=yes&more_nodeId1=224152&contentPK=21286895
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 23:09, 18th August 2008 |
I have to say that I am impressed at North Somerset Council's commitment, this news coming after their recent positive study (link below.)
http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/Transport/news-20080618-portisheadraillink.htm
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by John R at 06:37, 19th August 2008 |
Good news. By the way, has the full study been published yet. I can't find reference to it anywhere, but it was supposed to be out in late July.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 13:57, 19th August 2008 |
Agreed, John: I haven't yet been able to track down (heh, heh!) the full study, but I'm working on it!
In the meantime, more details on this story are available at http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Council-makes-tracks-Portishead-line/article-275778-detail/article.html
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 22:03, 19th August 2008 |
Further article link.
http://thisissomerset.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=147472&command=displayContent&sourceNode=243687&home=yes&more_nodeId1=242222&contentPK=21313692
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 00:13, 20th August 2008 |
... and the Portishead Railway Group seem quite happy about it, for obvious reasons: for their news page - which includes a useful list of previous news items relating to the line - see (link below.)
http://www.portisheadrailwaygroup.org/html/news.html
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 22:19, 20th August 2008 |
"With the purchase this week by North Somerset Council of a three-mile section of derelict track, the prospect of trains running along the line once again has moved a step closer. The reopening of a route first envisaged by Brunel in 1839, opened in 1867 and closed to passenger traffic in 1964, would give thousands of commuters from Portishead a realistic alternative to driving to work in Bristol. Currently, the only other option is taking the bus, which can take more than an hour. If the branch line is reopened, journeys to the city will take less than 30 minutes.
A survey carried out by two Portishead councillors in December 2007 found that between 7am and 9am, 2,400 cars left Portishead on the Portbury Hundreds and 1,500 via Clapton Lane. This number of commuters driving to Bristol every morning will only increase, as Portishead's population has more than quadrupled in size since 1960 and continues to grow.
North Somerset Council appointed a team of consultants to assess the potential for the reintroduction of a passenger rail service between Bristol and Portishead. In their report, published in June, the cost of the scheme was estimated to be between ^7.7 million and ^14.4m. This includes building a new road bridge at Quays Avenue in Portishead. Operating costs were assessed by consultants Halcrow at between ^1.7m and ^2.4m per year, resulting in a likely subsidy of between ^400,000 to ^900,000. This would be paid by North Somerset Council.
The difference in prices is due to the various options proposed. The cheapest of these would see one train an hour calling at Portishead and Temple Meads, with track reinstatement, a new station at Portishead and a signal upgrade. The most expensive option would see two trains an hour on the line at peak times and one in less busy periods, with trains calling at Pill, Ashton Gate, Bedminster and Parson Street, a passing loop and additional signals.
The cost of tickets was not included in the Halcrow report, but if First Great Western becomes the line operator, as expected, tickets from Portishead to Temple Meads would probably cost about the same as the fare from Bath ^8 for an adult return."
For full details, see http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Portishead-rail-link-plan-track/article-278147-detail/article.html
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by John R at 22:42, 20th August 2008 |
The cost of tickets was not included in the Halcrow report, but if First Great Western becomes the line operator, as expected, tickets from Portishead to Temple Meads would probably cost about the same as the fare from Bath ^8 for an adult return."
Ouch! Bit steep compared with ^3.80 from Nailsea (which some P'head commuters drive to).
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 22:50, 20th August 2008 |
Interesting that was your reaction, too, John!
I didn't like to include my personal comment in my previous post about the Bristol Evening Post article, but that's exactly what I thought!
However, the pricing for Nailsea & Backwell to BTM is a bit odd: in the past, I've compared the cost of a return ticket from Nailsea to Paddington with the cost of BTM to Paddington, and it's an extra ^12 - not the ^3.80 we pay?
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 12:19, 23rd August 2008 |
The Executive Summary of the Portishead study can be found in the link below.
http://www.raildocuments.org.uk/gwfuture/portisheadstudyexecsummary.pdf
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by bemmy at 10:56, 27th August 2008 |
I hope that someone somewhere learns the lessons from Ebbw Vale:
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=3345.0
If they can only stump up the money for an hourly service they need their heads examined, but at the very least they should make provision for a passing loop so that when they come to the unforseeable realisation that an hourly 2 car train isn't making a big dent in the traffic congestion, there is the possibility of upgrading to a proper commuter service.
I'm surprised they are not considering a station at Portbury -- I don't really know the area but from the map it would seem to make sense.
I'm not surprised that they are talking about high fares. Portishead is notoriously wealthy (I know that's an unfair generalisation but these stereotypes stick) and as the train would be by far the quickest and most comfortable way into town, First will be wanting to charge a premium for it -- if people don't like it they can stay in their cars, or pay slightly less to spend over an hour on the bus.
On the plus side, the capital costs seem quite modest to me, compared to the ^16m spent on largely cosmetic improvements to the Bristol "showcase" bus routes.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by John R at 22:43, 8th September 2008 |
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Portishead-hit-traffic-chaos/article-313202-detail/article.html
Neat trick this, arranging two sets of road works for the same time. The diversionary route for the local closure is signed as the M5, which will be congested with traffic tailed back from the Avonmouth Bridge works. Brilliant planning!
Now if only that 3 miles of track had been reinstated......
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 22:00, 9th September 2008 |
Portishead Railway Group chairman Alan Matthews picks up on John R's point in the link below.
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/way-Portishead-commuters/article-315060-detail/article.html
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by John R at 22:14, 9th September 2008 |
Note the official comment:-
Spokesman for the Highways Agency Robin Miller said: "The problems experienced yesterday morning appear to be the result of the volume of traffic.
"The road out of Portishead is often busy and it is suspected that this traffic and the return of the schools have resulted in the queues.
Well I never. Did nobody think of that? I can understand why the M5 work was delayed until the end of the holidays, but the local closure should have been carried out during the holidays.
Maybe we shouldn't be so critical of the railways, compared with this lot.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 23:01, 9th September 2008 |
Apparently, the Highways Agency still think they are dealing with Railtrack...
http://railwayeye.blogspot.com/2008/09/shropshire-ghosts.html
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by bemmy at 17:38, 10th September 2008 |
Note the official comment:-
Spokesman for the Highways Agency Robin Miller said: "The problems experienced yesterday morning appear to be the result of the volume of traffic.
What's more, global warming is caused by a rise in temperature, the fall in property prices is caused by people paying less money to buy houses, and your train is late because it was delayed. Spokesman for the Highways Agency Robin Miller said: "The problems experienced yesterday morning appear to be the result of the volume of traffic.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 21:19, 11th September 2008 |
A company making a documentary about the effect of railway closures in the 1960s have got caught up in the congestion (link below.)
http://thisissomerset.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=147472&command=displayContent&sourceNode=243687&home=yes&more_nodeId1=242222&contentPK=21425434
Meanwhile, North Somerset Council and the Highways Agency appear to blaming eachother (link below.)
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Council-accused-Portishead-traffic-chaos/article-320704-detail/article.html
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 09:57, 18th September 2008 |
The next Portishead Railway Group meeting will take place on Tues 18 November 2008, 7:30 pm, Folk Hall, High Street, Portishead.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 22:00, 19th September 2008 |
The main road between Clevedon and Portishead reopened today after three weeks of resurfacing work (link below.)
http://www.thisissomerset.co.uk/news/Clevedon-Portishead-road-reopens/article-341140-detail/article.html
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 23:15, 26th September 2008 |
The next Portishead Railway Group meeting will take place on Tues 17 February 2009, 7:30 pm, Folk Hall, High Street, Portishead.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 16:10, 22nd January 2009 |
FOSBR reports that on Friday morning (tomorrow) Radio Bristol will have a phone in about congestion for Portishead commuters from 9-10 am.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 12:40, 28th January 2009 |
From the BBC:
Plans to re-connect Portishead in North Somerset to the passenger rail network are due to move a step closer.
Network Rail is to carry out a study into how feasible it would be to put the line back in service and to build a new railway station.
The section under the spotlight is three miles of line from Portbury Docks into Portishead town centre.
It has remained closed since 1964 despite a vociferous local campaign to get it reinstated.
The study, costing some ^164,000, will look at potential engineering problems, any conflicts with the freight-only service which operates along the first part of the route to Portbury Docks and the cost of reopening a full passenger service.
Deputy leader of North Somerset Council Elphin Ap Rees said the study is "an important step forward" towards trying to improve the transport infrastructure of Portishead.
Network Rail is to carry out a study into how feasible it would be to put the line back in service and to build a new railway station.
The section under the spotlight is three miles of line from Portbury Docks into Portishead town centre.
It has remained closed since 1964 despite a vociferous local campaign to get it reinstated.
The study, costing some ^164,000, will look at potential engineering problems, any conflicts with the freight-only service which operates along the first part of the route to Portbury Docks and the cost of reopening a full passenger service.
Deputy leader of North Somerset Council Elphin Ap Rees said the study is "an important step forward" towards trying to improve the transport infrastructure of Portishead.
See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7855254.stm
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by thetrout at 14:39, 28th January 2009 |
Maybe a Direct Service from Portishead to London Paddington 2 or 3 times a day would get people off the buses and roads because they know they can get to the capital city without having to mess around with different tickets for each mode of tranport, changing buses or parking etc.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by devon_metro at 16:31, 28th January 2009 |
Maybe a Direct Service from Portishead to London Paddington 2 or 3 times a day would get people off the buses and roads because they know they can get to the capital city without having to mess around with different tickets for each mode of tranport, changing buses or parking etc.
Could this be a window for an open access operator?
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by IndustryInsider at 16:43, 28th January 2009 |
Maybe a Direct Service from Portishead to London Paddington 2 or 3 times a day would get people off the buses and roads because they know they can get to the capital city without having to mess around with different tickets for each mode of tranport, changing buses or parking etc.
Could this be a window for an open access operator?No. There's no paths. Surely the residents of Portishead would be pleased enough with a reasonably frequent rail link to Bristol city centre and the onward half-hourly FGW service to London?
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Btline at 17:08, 28th January 2009 |
I doubt NR will want to build HST length platforms!
Don't get your hopes up about this! The Uckfield to Lewes line was declined after the feasibility study, despite everyone knowing that it needs to be built now!
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by FarWestJohn at 13:44, 9th April 2009 |
I read recently in the press about six years, if lucky, to get the line open for passengers to Portishead.
Perhaps Network Rail should read this and employ the Thales and Saudi Binladen Group.
The 2 400 km network is expected to be fully operational by 2013 and includes seven stations and 41 sidings and will handle passenger and general freight traffic.
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news_view/article/2009/04/9503/north_south_railway_etcs_contract_placed.html
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 21:53, 21st June 2009 |
From the Clevedon Mercury:
Boost for Portishead to Bristol passenger railway
The prospect of passenger trains from Portishead to Bristol received support from the rail industry this week.
The Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) has published a report backing the reopening of some branch lines that were closed during the notorious Beeching cuts of the 1960s.
The report, entitled Connecting Communities - Expanding Access To The Rail Network, has specifically recommended 14 towns with populations of more than 15,000 where it feels there is a positive business case to reopen rail routes.
Portishead isn't included on that list, but it is specifically singled out as a case where an updated study reflecting its growing population would very likely tilt the balance in favour of reopening.
Alan Matthews, chairman of the Portishead Railway Group, said he welcomed the report. He said: "It is another step in the right direction. These train operating companies are obviously profit-driven, so the fact they are even looking at the line is a positive sign. In fact, I think Portishead is more viable than some of the others it mentions because most of the track is in place due to the freight line from Royal Portbury Docks."
Michael Roberts, chief executive of ATOC, said: "Many past studies have looked at reopening old railways, but this one looks first at the market, not the map. It starts with people, where they live and where they want to travel." He claimed the identified schemes could benefit an additional one million people not currently well served by rail.
Other towns on the list include Brixham, in Devon, Fleetwood, in Lancashire, and Ringwood, near Bournemouth.
In January North Somerset Council commissioned Network Rail to carry out a ^164,000 technical evaluation of the requirements to reopen the line. That report will be completed later this year, and is considered as stage three of Network Rail's eight-step process to open a rail line.
However, stage six is construction of the line, so the key stages are four and five, at which the government has to commit to the line reopening and funding needs to be allocated.
This latest report gives an outline capital cost of ^29 million, a figure Mr Matthews said is solid and fully takes inflation into account.
According to ATOC, the scheme currently has a benefit to cost ratio (BCR) of 0.6, meaning its costs outweigh its benefits. But it admits: "A number of factors mean this scheme requires further analysis with more recent data. In particular, the population has risen from 17,000 at the 2001 census to 21,000 today, with a further 2,000 planned before 2014. Traffic congestion at Junction 19 of the M5 has become chronic. These factors are likely to push the BCR over 1.0, which would justify further evaluation."
The prospect of passenger trains from Portishead to Bristol received support from the rail industry this week.
The Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) has published a report backing the reopening of some branch lines that were closed during the notorious Beeching cuts of the 1960s.
The report, entitled Connecting Communities - Expanding Access To The Rail Network, has specifically recommended 14 towns with populations of more than 15,000 where it feels there is a positive business case to reopen rail routes.
Portishead isn't included on that list, but it is specifically singled out as a case where an updated study reflecting its growing population would very likely tilt the balance in favour of reopening.
Alan Matthews, chairman of the Portishead Railway Group, said he welcomed the report. He said: "It is another step in the right direction. These train operating companies are obviously profit-driven, so the fact they are even looking at the line is a positive sign. In fact, I think Portishead is more viable than some of the others it mentions because most of the track is in place due to the freight line from Royal Portbury Docks."
Michael Roberts, chief executive of ATOC, said: "Many past studies have looked at reopening old railways, but this one looks first at the market, not the map. It starts with people, where they live and where they want to travel." He claimed the identified schemes could benefit an additional one million people not currently well served by rail.
Other towns on the list include Brixham, in Devon, Fleetwood, in Lancashire, and Ringwood, near Bournemouth.
In January North Somerset Council commissioned Network Rail to carry out a ^164,000 technical evaluation of the requirements to reopen the line. That report will be completed later this year, and is considered as stage three of Network Rail's eight-step process to open a rail line.
However, stage six is construction of the line, so the key stages are four and five, at which the government has to commit to the line reopening and funding needs to be allocated.
This latest report gives an outline capital cost of ^29 million, a figure Mr Matthews said is solid and fully takes inflation into account.
According to ATOC, the scheme currently has a benefit to cost ratio (BCR) of 0.6, meaning its costs outweigh its benefits. But it admits: "A number of factors mean this scheme requires further analysis with more recent data. In particular, the population has risen from 17,000 at the 2001 census to 21,000 today, with a further 2,000 planned before 2014. Traffic congestion at Junction 19 of the M5 has become chronic. These factors are likely to push the BCR over 1.0, which would justify further evaluation."
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by willc at 12:40, 6th August 2009 |
On the same day as the electrification announcement, DafT apparently gave details of its regional funding allocation allowances, which as well as the ^21m for Swindon-Kemble redoubling, includes ^25.3m towards the Portishead scheme and ^12.5m for the Bristol Metro project http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/metro/2009/08/04-one-billion-investment.html
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by clevedonian at 18:59, 6th August 2009 |
On the same day as the electrification announcement, DafT apparently gave details of its regional funding allocation allowances, which as well as the ^21m for Swindon-Kemble redoubling, includes ^25.3m towards the Portishead scheme and ^12.5m for the Bristol Metro project http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/metro/2009/08/04-one-billion-investment.html
so is that enough to reopen the portishead line!
I would be over the moon if they did
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by willc at 20:36, 6th August 2009 |
On the same day as the electrification announcement, DafT apparently gave details of its regional funding allocation allowances, which as well as the ^21m for Swindon-Kemble redoubling, includes ^25.3m towards the Portishead scheme and ^12.5m for the Bristol Metro project http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/metro/2009/08/04-one-billion-investment.html
so is that enough to reopen the portishead line!
I would be over the moon if they did
not quite enough, I believe Network Rail recently costed it at about ^30m, but I suppose the government is hoping it can nudge the local authorities and/or NR and FGW into bridging the gap
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by anthony215 at 23:23, 7th August 2009 |
it should cost ^30 million to re-open the portishead line since all they need to do is install new signalling and build a few new stations although there may be a problem if FGW have not got any trains to run the service.
Anyway i do hope the portishead line is re-opened as can bee seen across in wales how good the recently opened Ebbw Vale line is ( Too good in my opinions, trains are often full even with 4 carriages)
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 18:21, 13th September 2009 |
From the Clevedon Mercury:
Rail report gives boost to Portishead line prospects
Rail chiefs have given new hope to campaigners in Portishead. (The) publication of Network Rail's 10-year plan to expand rail services in the West has been welcomed by the Portishead Railway Group.
The 190-page report makes extensive mention of Portishead and shows rail bosses' thinking on how services from Portishead would fit into the network.
Portishead Railway Group chairman Alan Matthews said he is encouraged by the report. He said: "It is another piece in the jigsaw towards reopening the line. There is still a long way to go but the position has changed an awful lot in the last 18 months. I think back to then and the language used by the rail industry was very much 'if it will ever happen', whereas now they seem to be planning for 'when it happens'." He said North Somerset Council making the decision to promote the line had given the campaign credibility within the industry.
Network Rail, the owner and operator of the tracks, signals and other rail infrastructure, has produced the report, Great Western Route Utilisation Strategy, on behalf of the whole rail industry. The report presents various options for services to Portishead if the Government decides to meet the cost of reopening the line. The report doesn't just look at a service between Portishead and Bristol Temple Meads, via Pill, Ashton Gate, Parson Street and Bedminster. It also considers cross-Bristol services such as options for Portishead to Gloucester or Yate, to Temple Meads, Filton Abbey Wood and Bristol Parkway, or Portishead to Westbury, Wiltshire, via Temple Meads, Bath and Trowbridge.
Other elements of the report look at major schemes at London Paddington, Reading and Swindon to cope with a 31 per cent increase in passengers on the Great Western in the next 10 years. It also suggests longer trains on services between Cardiff and Taunton, increasing space on overcrowded trains serving Yatton and Nailsea and Backwell.
Reopening the Portishead branch line is now being promoted by North Somerset Council, which earlier this year commissioned Network Rail to carry out a separate ^164,000 feasibility study into reopening the line. North Somerset executive responsible for transport, Elfan Ap Rees, said that report was 'about a month' from completion. He said: "Network Rail have certainly been carrying out very detailed work on this."
It is stage three of an eight-stage process to reopen closed railway lines, but stage six is actually physically laying tracks, so the key stages are three, four and five when decisions are made on funding and route options.
The scheme is part of a wider West of England Partnership bid to secure government funding under the government's Transport Innovation Fund. The South West Regional Development Agency has also submitted a bid for ^25 million as a contribution to the scheme as part of its medium term commitments for 2014 ^ 2019.
Rail chiefs have given new hope to campaigners in Portishead. (The) publication of Network Rail's 10-year plan to expand rail services in the West has been welcomed by the Portishead Railway Group.
The 190-page report makes extensive mention of Portishead and shows rail bosses' thinking on how services from Portishead would fit into the network.
Portishead Railway Group chairman Alan Matthews said he is encouraged by the report. He said: "It is another piece in the jigsaw towards reopening the line. There is still a long way to go but the position has changed an awful lot in the last 18 months. I think back to then and the language used by the rail industry was very much 'if it will ever happen', whereas now they seem to be planning for 'when it happens'." He said North Somerset Council making the decision to promote the line had given the campaign credibility within the industry.
Network Rail, the owner and operator of the tracks, signals and other rail infrastructure, has produced the report, Great Western Route Utilisation Strategy, on behalf of the whole rail industry. The report presents various options for services to Portishead if the Government decides to meet the cost of reopening the line. The report doesn't just look at a service between Portishead and Bristol Temple Meads, via Pill, Ashton Gate, Parson Street and Bedminster. It also considers cross-Bristol services such as options for Portishead to Gloucester or Yate, to Temple Meads, Filton Abbey Wood and Bristol Parkway, or Portishead to Westbury, Wiltshire, via Temple Meads, Bath and Trowbridge.
Other elements of the report look at major schemes at London Paddington, Reading and Swindon to cope with a 31 per cent increase in passengers on the Great Western in the next 10 years. It also suggests longer trains on services between Cardiff and Taunton, increasing space on overcrowded trains serving Yatton and Nailsea and Backwell.
Reopening the Portishead branch line is now being promoted by North Somerset Council, which earlier this year commissioned Network Rail to carry out a separate ^164,000 feasibility study into reopening the line. North Somerset executive responsible for transport, Elfan Ap Rees, said that report was 'about a month' from completion. He said: "Network Rail have certainly been carrying out very detailed work on this."
It is stage three of an eight-stage process to reopen closed railway lines, but stage six is actually physically laying tracks, so the key stages are three, four and five when decisions are made on funding and route options.
The scheme is part of a wider West of England Partnership bid to secure government funding under the government's Transport Innovation Fund. The South West Regional Development Agency has also submitted a bid for ^25 million as a contribution to the scheme as part of its medium term commitments for 2014 ^ 2019.
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 15:06, 7th November 2009 |
By the way - and I'm sorry if it's rather old news now - the full Halcrow report for North Somerset Council is available online.
Actually, I only found it while 'digging' for something else, but as it hasn't been posted here previously, I hope it is of some use, to someone, at least!
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by John R at 22:04, 31st December 2009 |
From the BBC:
See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7855254.stm
Plans to re-connect Portishead in North Somerset to the passenger rail network are due to move a step closer.
Network Rail is to carry out a study into how feasible it would be to put the line back in service and to build a new railway station.
The section under the spotlight is three miles of line from Portbury Docks into Portishead town centre.
It has remained closed since 1964 despite a vociferous local campaign to get it reinstated.
The study, costing some ^164,000, will look at potential engineering problems, any conflicts with the freight-only service which operates along the first part of the route to Portbury Docks and the cost of reopening a full passenger service.
Deputy leader of North Somerset Council Elphin Ap Rees said the study is "an important step forward" towards trying to improve the transport infrastructure of Portishead.
Network Rail is to carry out a study into how feasible it would be to put the line back in service and to build a new railway station.
The section under the spotlight is three miles of line from Portbury Docks into Portishead town centre.
It has remained closed since 1964 despite a vociferous local campaign to get it reinstated.
The study, costing some ^164,000, will look at potential engineering problems, any conflicts with the freight-only service which operates along the first part of the route to Portbury Docks and the cost of reopening a full passenger service.
Deputy leader of North Somerset Council Elphin Ap Rees said the study is "an important step forward" towards trying to improve the transport infrastructure of Portishead.
See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7855254.stm
Does anyone know what has become of this report? A search on the North Somerset website drew a complete blank.
Is it reasonable for a GRIP 3 survey to take nearly a year, particularly if someone else is funding it?
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 22:28, 31st December 2009 |
From the Clevedon Mercury on 3 September 2009:
Reopening the Portishead branch line is now being promoted by North Somerset Council, which earlier this year commissioned Network Rail to carry out a separate ^164,000 feasibility study into reopening the line. North Somerset executive responsible for transport, Elfan Ap Rees, said that report was 'about a month' from completion. He said: "Network Rail have certainly been carrying out very detailed work on this."
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by John R at 00:53, 1st January 2010 |
A long month then....
Re: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 00:56, 1st January 2010 |
Happy New Year!