Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by Timmer at 16:57, 3rd February 2014 |
Moderator note: I've changed the scope of this topic to cover the weather related disruption across the West Country, not just the problems at Dawlish, and have amended the title to reflect that. bignosemac
From the front page of the FGW website:
Monday 3rd February 2014.
All lines blocked between Exeter St Davids and Newton Abbot - Update at 1530
The train service between Exeter St Davids and Newton Abbot has been suspended due to high seas and strong winds causing significant damage to the track along the Dawlish sea wall. Network Rail have started to carry out the required repairs but we do not expect the affected lines to reopen until tomorrow at the earliest.
Road transport is operating between Exeter St Davids and Newton Abbot serving all stations. In addition, limited road transport is operating direct between Plymouth and Taunton (non-stop). Ticket restrictions have been lifted for all First Great Western services from, to and within Devon and Cornwall until further notice.
From 1600 this afternoon we plan to introduce an hourly stopping service between Exeter St Davids and Dawlish Warren.
All lines blocked between Exeter St Davids and Newton Abbot - Update at 1530
The train service between Exeter St Davids and Newton Abbot has been suspended due to high seas and strong winds causing significant damage to the track along the Dawlish sea wall. Network Rail have started to carry out the required repairs but we do not expect the affected lines to reopen until tomorrow at the earliest.
Road transport is operating between Exeter St Davids and Newton Abbot serving all stations. In addition, limited road transport is operating direct between Plymouth and Taunton (non-stop). Ticket restrictions have been lifted for all First Great Western services from, to and within Devon and Cornwall until further notice.
From 1600 this afternoon we plan to introduce an hourly stopping service between Exeter St Davids and Dawlish Warren.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 17:26, 3rd February 2014 |
It is now being reported internally that the line is likely to remain closed until Friday 7th February. That would indicate that the damage is quite significant.
Tonight and tomorrow night's Sleepers have been cancelled.
CrossCountry and FGW have mutual ticket acceptance between Bristol and Penzance until further notice.
Replacement road transport has also been sourced and is operating to a hastily arranged timetable (see attachment).
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by Timmer at 17:40, 3rd February 2014 |
What a time for the sea wall section of the line to close whilst Whiteball tunnel work is still taking place making an already long journey even longer down to the WoE.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by Timmer at 17:51, 3rd February 2014 |
Some rather dramatic video footage showing why the line is now closed:
http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/update/2014-02-03/flooding-hits-dawlish/
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by The Tall Controller at 17:52, 3rd February 2014 |
Shame its happened. Was due to get my first taste of the Pullman tomorrow, but I guess that'll have to be put on hold!
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 18:41, 3rd February 2014 |
Yet again with disruption there is inconsistent information being given out. FGW say the line will be closed until Friday. National Rail Enquiries and CrossCountry are saying until Wednesday.
To pile on the problems, more high spring tides are due tomorrow morning and evening, combined with forecasted heavy rain and 70mph winds.
CrossCountry are however providing direct road transport Taunton <-> Plymouth to obviate the need for some passengers to change buses at Exeter.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by Pb_devon at 19:05, 3rd February 2014 |
Just arrived in London off 1A87, the 1344 ex Plymouth - except it started in Exeter. I have to confess I cheated and got driven from Ply to Exeter
Run on the diverted route bang on time, and all crossing services worked.
I'll have to keep an eye on things for tomorrows return, which I booked for the 1703 to get a meal. Anyone know if that will run with the pullman, i.e. is there a HST full set and staff available from London end?
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by bobm at 19:13, 3rd February 2014 |
The crew who should work that 17:03 are the ones who should have worked today.
From what I gather it is most unlikely there will be a Pullman in either direction tomorrow. (There is only one each way at the moment operated by a Plymouth crew because of Whiteball)
You can't really put a London crew on - even if there was one available - as they can't get home again.
Today's crew was sent to Exeter by road to run a buffet on one of the services that started there but they couldn't really bring all the equipment with them to operate a Pullman. As it was they had to get off at Reading to get home again.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 19:57, 3rd February 2014 |
I'll let NRE and XC off. They've now updated their information, both now agreeing with FGW that the line is unlikely to reopen until Friday 7th.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 21:06, 3rd February 2014 |
From the Torquay Herald Express:
Trains cancelled until Wednesday as South Devon floods
Flooding In Totnes
Train services between Exeter and Newton Abbot have been cancelled until Wednesday.
First Great Western has reported that major damage has been caused to parts of the track due to poor weather.
Bus replacement services are running instead. Train passengers can not however use Stagecoach buses.
A Stagecoach South West spokesman explained: "We have not currently had an approach from First Great Western with regards to accepting their train tickets on our bus services. Therefore anyone wishing to use our buses instead of the train will need to buy a ticket in order to travel."
Flooding In Totnes
Train services between Exeter and Newton Abbot have been cancelled until Wednesday.
First Great Western has reported that major damage has been caused to parts of the track due to poor weather.
Bus replacement services are running instead. Train passengers can not however use Stagecoach buses.
A Stagecoach South West spokesman explained: "We have not currently had an approach from First Great Western with regards to accepting their train tickets on our bus services. Therefore anyone wishing to use our buses instead of the train will need to buy a ticket in order to travel."
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 21:20, 3rd February 2014 |
I assume that article was written this morning, soon after the line closed and before ticket acceptance on Stagecoach services was arranged.
If not then I can imagine some folk would have been somewhat annoyed having been told by FGW at Exeter and Newton Abbot to catch the Stagecoach service 2 where rail tickets were being allowed, only to get on the bus and find they had to buy a new ticket.
Current advice from NRE is that limited replacement road transport is in operation and rail tickets are being accepted on Stagecoach South West services via reasonable routes.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by Pb_devon at 21:35, 3rd February 2014 |
Thanks bobm. I will probably catch an earlier service and get something out of the freezer at home (whatever time that will be!!).
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by SDS at 21:58, 3rd February 2014 |
Interesting internal comment about black being declared for the 'first time ever' on XC tyrell. I understand the PIDD colours but what is 'mouchel'?
DAWLISH SEAWALL -
UPDATE - MOUCHEL warning for Tuesday morning is GREEN however the evening 2100 - 2300 is BLACK (first time ever recorded) which coincides with very high spring tides and 70 mph SW winds.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 22:19, 3rd February 2014 |
In many ways I think FGW and XC were quite lucky today. Because of the Whiteball Tunnel Blockade they had plenty of coaches and drivers available. Having travelled to and from Devon and Cornwall a few times since the blockade began I noted there seemed to be over-provision of Rail Replacement vehicles, available 'just in case'.
Re-provisioning some of these to either cover Exeter - Newton Abbot, or to operate longer distance, Taunton - Plymouth, seems to have be organised pretty swiftly.
And here's a picture, posted on Twitter by Network Rail showing the angry sea this morning at Dawlish:
https://twitter.com/NetworkRailPAD/status/430375691742232576/photo/1
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by stuving at 22:20, 3rd February 2014 |
Interesting internal comment about black being declared for the 'first time ever' on XC tyrell. I understand the PIDD colours but what is 'mouchel'?
DAWLISH SEAWALL -
UPDATE - MOUCHEL warning for Tuesday morning is GREEN however the evening 2100 - 2300 is BLACK (first time ever recorded) which coincides with very high spring tides and 70 mph SW winds.
DAWLISH SEAWALL -
UPDATE - MOUCHEL warning for Tuesday morning is GREEN however the evening 2100 - 2300 is BLACK (first time ever recorded) which coincides with very high spring tides and 70 mph SW winds.
Mouchel is a big engineering services company - mainly in the utilities market, and similar environment stuff. Presumably they provided the information in some way - maybe working for EA? (If you look, the colour is green then black.)
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by bobm at 23:14, 3rd February 2014 |
Slightly after the event, but I was at Dawlish at lunchtime today to see some of the aftermath of the storms.
Marine Parade
You can see the waves have washed large amounts of ballast onto the footpath and roadway. I wouldn't be surprised if some cars were damaged.
As well as washing stones onto the road, some were left on the running rail.
A lot of debris was pushed under the Colonnades and part of it was still flooded even at low tide.
Shortly after I was there the platforms at Dawlish were closed off because the sea was again threatening. However the overnight tide had destroyed the wooden fencing in a number of places, with broken posts being thrown onto the line.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by bobm at 23:43, 3rd February 2014 |
If not then I can imagine some folk would have been somewhat annoyed having been told by FGW at Exeter and Newton Abbot to catch the Stagecoach service 2 where rail tickets were being allowed, only to get on the bus and find they had to buy a new ticket.
I caught the Stagecoach 2 Bus and paid for a ^7.50 Explorer ticket at Newton Abbot. I gather the agreement to accept rail tickets was published about 15 minutes later. However I wasn't too miffed as there were probably four coach loads of people waiting to board the two coaches that were at the station when I left to walk into town for the bus, so I probably got ahead of the masses!
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by bobm at 11:22, 4th February 2014 |
Due to the forecase high winds there will be blanket 50mph speed restriction on all lines (that are open) west of Exeter as well as the Barnstaple branch between 3 and 9pm today.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by ChrisB at 11:55, 4th February 2014 |
Just tried posting a train plan sent to Customer Panel members, but it exceeded the 20,000 character limit - sorry guys! (And after formatting it all too - grr)
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by bobm at 11:56, 4th February 2014 |
Due to the forecase high winds there will be blanket 50mph speed restriction on all lines (that are open) west of Exeter as well as the Barnstaple branch between 3 and 9pm today.
This has now been withdrawn as the forecast has improved....however the sleeper services for Wednesday night are now cancelled. (Today's were cancelled yesterday.)
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by Nibat at 12:45, 4th February 2014 |
When we saw the Mouchel thing we asked what it was.
In brief, it's the weather forecasting system in use for the seawall, it mainly records the wind and the waves and generates a graph. When both peak we have a problem, and they are peaking badly between 19.00 and 21.00 this evening. It presents the information in a colour scale, green being normal, blue a bit bad, amber would be Level 1 or 2 depending on the scale, red is level 2 and black is black.
The line is not expected to reopen until at least thursday, friday being more likely. And the reason is because as far as we know NR are not doing any repair works until after the high tide tonight as they think it will be a pointless exercise.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 12:48, 4th February 2014 |
Just tried posting a train plan sent to Customer Panel members, but it exceeded the 20,000 character limit - sorry guys! (And after formatting it all too - grr)
Can it not be added to a post as an attachment? Either as a .pdf or .doc?
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 12:56, 4th February 2014 |
Network Rail are saying that the Up line (which is bi-directional) could be reopened, but under full possession, to allow stock movements only.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by Southern Stag at 13:01, 4th February 2014 |
A couple of services have run over the up line today. Three ECS movements, one freight service and one passenger train, the 1135 Exeter St Davids-Plymouth.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by bobm at 13:53, 4th February 2014 |
Just had a call from FGW Customer Services to tell me my sleeper service tonight is cancelled. They confirm sleeper tickets for cancelled services can either be refunded in full or used on either the last daytime service today or the first one in the morning. Common sense I know, but nice to have it confirmed.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by ChrisB at 14:29, 4th February 2014 |
Just tried posting a train plan sent to Customer Panel members, but it exceeded the 20,000 character limit - sorry guys! (And after formatting it all too - grr)
Can it not be added to a post as an attachment? Either as a .pdf or .doc?
I have it as a 6 page pdf, but there needs to be some editing....I don't have any further time available to re-do the copy 'n paste into a Word doc. Spent nearly 20mins doing that directly already :-(
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 19:10, 4th February 2014 |
The inclement weather is on its way again. The line between St Erth and Penzance has been closed as a safety measure. The single line section into Penzance is being battered by high waves over the sea defences. There is no replacement road transport either at the moment due to hazardous road conditions.
Also, the line between Par and Newquay is currently blocked by a fallen tree and a train has struck a fallen tree between Liskeard and Bodmin Parkway.
Moderator note: I've changed the scope of this topic to cover the weather related disruption across Devon & Cornwall and have amended the title to reflect that. bignosemac
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 19:22, 4th February 2014 |
People are now being advised not to travel between Exeter and Penzance.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 19:28, 4th February 2014 |
From the BBC:
Dawlish railway repairs halted over safety fears
Repairs on a section of storm-damaged coastal railway line in Devon have been halted because of safety concerns.
Network Rail said it was pulling all repair staff away from working on the section of track at Dawlish. The infrastructure owner said up to 50m (165ft) of track was unsafe after supporting ballast was washed away this week, but it was stopping work because fresh storms were due to hit the coast. It said it hoped trains would run again by Friday at the earliest. The withdrawal of staff is as the result of the first black safety warning Network Rail has ever issued in the South West, it said.
The line at Dawlish, which passes along the town's sea wall, is vulnerable to high waves.
Julian Burnell, from Network Rail, estimated "hundreds of tonnes" of ballast had been dislodged from under tracks after they had "taken a real pounding from the sea". He added that the town's station had also been damaged by the weather.
Dawlish is between Exeter and Newton Abbot on the main railway line through the county. The section had already been closed off on Monday because of "poor weather conditions", train operator First Great Western said. The company had hoped services would resume on Wednesday, but this has now been delayed until Friday. It tweeted that replacement road transport was being used to ferry passengers between the two stations. Sleeper services between London Paddington and Penzance have also been cancelled until further notice. It and rival operator CrossCountry were currently accepting each others' tickets between Bristol and Penzance, it added.
The Met Office has issued a yellow alert for high winds in the South West until 23:00 GMT on Wednesday.
Network Rail said up to 50m of track was unsafe after ballast underneath was washed away
Repairs on a section of storm-damaged coastal railway line in Devon have been halted because of safety concerns.
Network Rail said it was pulling all repair staff away from working on the section of track at Dawlish. The infrastructure owner said up to 50m (165ft) of track was unsafe after supporting ballast was washed away this week, but it was stopping work because fresh storms were due to hit the coast. It said it hoped trains would run again by Friday at the earliest. The withdrawal of staff is as the result of the first black safety warning Network Rail has ever issued in the South West, it said.
The line at Dawlish, which passes along the town's sea wall, is vulnerable to high waves.
Julian Burnell, from Network Rail, estimated "hundreds of tonnes" of ballast had been dislodged from under tracks after they had "taken a real pounding from the sea". He added that the town's station had also been damaged by the weather.
Dawlish is between Exeter and Newton Abbot on the main railway line through the county. The section had already been closed off on Monday because of "poor weather conditions", train operator First Great Western said. The company had hoped services would resume on Wednesday, but this has now been delayed until Friday. It tweeted that replacement road transport was being used to ferry passengers between the two stations. Sleeper services between London Paddington and Penzance have also been cancelled until further notice. It and rival operator CrossCountry were currently accepting each others' tickets between Bristol and Penzance, it added.
The Met Office has issued a yellow alert for high winds in the South West until 23:00 GMT on Wednesday.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by bobm at 19:33, 4th February 2014 |
Not directly railway related - but this video shows the sea flooding the harbour front at St Ives
http://stivestv.co.uk/all-st-ives-tv-videos/storm-surge-strikes-st-ives-harbour/
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by Pb_devon at 19:56, 4th February 2014 |
To complete my journey report, I decided to return on 1C87 the 1448 ex PAD, and not bother waiting for the 1703 (and missed meeting thetrout - sorry). On time arrival at EXD. First nearly empty, and your reporter overdosed on cake & shortbread due to repeated trolley passing! Cheated again and got collected in Exeter. weather down here is appalling, so no wonder NR have abandoned work at Dawlish.
BTW, 1C87 not booked to stop at Westbury, but ran through the station rather than the avoiding line - points failure again?? (see my earlier topic about Totnes - is it me?!)
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by DavidBrown at 22:49, 4th February 2014 |
BBC have reported that part of the sea wall has been washed away - RailUK forum rumours it to be a 30-40ft stretch. Sounds like it could be well past Friday before trains are running again.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by bobm at 22:51, 4th February 2014 |
Also now reports that part of the line has been washed away between St Erth and Penzance.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 23:03, 4th February 2014 |
BBC have reported that part of the sea wall has been washed away - RailUK forum rumours it to be a 30-40ft stretch. Sounds like it could be well past Friday before trains are running again.
Internal information from Network Rail is saying the same. Sea wall washed away and track suspended in the air.
Also hearing via Facebook that the down platform at Dawlish has collapsed.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by devon_metro at 23:10, 4th February 2014 |
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1699630&postcount=815
Looks pretty bad
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 23:45, 4th February 2014 |
People are being evacuated from sea front properties in Dawlish.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 03:29, 5th February 2014 |
Latest information from FGW:
Strong winds and adverse weather conditions in the Devon & Cornwall areas overnight have caused severe disruption to both road and rail infrastructure. Train services on Wednesday morning between Newton Abbot and Penzance, including all branch lines, are likely to be severely disrupted until daylight inspections of all routes have been made. In addition, road conditions are likely to be hazardous and replacement road transport is not being operated. Passengers are advised NOT to attempt to travel on routes between Exeter St David's and Penzance during this morning until in has been confirmed that services have resumed.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by Lee at 06:22, 5th February 2014 |
I see reference to "total collapse" of Dawlish down platform. Has the whole lot gone, and is the down platform building still intact?
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by alexross42 at 09:38, 5th February 2014 |
The damage looks pretty epic:
https://twitter.com/richardwestcott/status/430991304823427072/photo/1
NOW is it time to reconsider an alternative inland route?!
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by BBM at 10:02, 5th February 2014 |
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by PhilWakely at 10:07, 5th February 2014 |
NOW is it time to reconsider an alternative inland route?!
As I said on the Whiteball Tunnel thread...
What with Whiteball and Dawlish at the moment, I can almost hear the computerised station announcer at Plymouth saying "the train now standing at platform 3 is the 10:30 to London Waterloo, calling at Tavistock, Okehampton, Exeter Central, Yeovil Junction, Salisbury and London Waterloo"..... if only!
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by bobm at 10:09, 5th February 2014 |
The clearest picture I have seen so far on Twitter
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by ChrisB at 10:24, 5th February 2014 |
I reckon there's at least a fortnight's repair work - with the proviso of no further storms (haha!)
That sea wall will need reinstating with piling before the track can be restored.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by broadgage at 10:30, 5th February 2014 |
The damage looks pretty epic:
https://twitter.com/richardwestcott/status/430991304823427072/photo/1
NOW is it time to reconsider an alternative inland route?!
https://twitter.com/richardwestcott/status/430991304823427072/photo/1
NOW is it time to reconsider an alternative inland route?!
Let us not be too hasty.
It might however be nearly time to consider appointing a commitee, to consider calling a meeting, to call for more studies.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by DavidBrown at 10:32, 5th February 2014 |
I reckon there's at least a fortnight's repair work - with the proviso of no further storms (haha!)
That sea wall will need reinstating with piling before the track can be restored.
That sea wall will need reinstating with piling before the track can be restored.
A fortnight? That would be some going! Depending on how long these storms go on for (BBC Weather speculating that could be at least a fortnight), I would hazard a guess that it might even be as far as April before full service is resumed - remember that what is pictured is only one stretch that has been damaged. And there could well be more stretches of sea wall that are ready to collapse that we just don't know about yet. Thankfully it's a late-ish Easter this year, so hopefully it will all be forgotten about by then.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by paul7575 at 10:35, 5th February 2014 |
Regarding Dawlish, what came first? I read a local newspaper report yesterday that said something like 'the railway was built along the town's sea wall'.
Is it not more accurate to say that following the building of the railway along the foot of the cliffs the town of Dawlish developed (or at least expanded) behind it at that point?
So it's all very well 'considering the inland route' but the coastal protection would still have to be maintained by someone, and the Act allowing it to be built probably requires that to be done by the railway 'in perpetuity'...
Paul
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by Tim at 10:55, 5th February 2014 |
someone needs to maintain the sea wall for sure. But I suppose that if the railway was shifted off the top of it there might be more options to use some of the space to build up the wall.
We do need an inland route. We can't simply disconnect such a large area from the rail network when the weather gets bad. Abandoning the route completely would mean some significant towns would loose their stations which would be bad.
How about a compromise of a new high speed inland route and the existing route retained for stopping services. You could perhaps single the existing route which would give a little more space between the trains and the sea and some more space for building up the defences
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by BBM at 11:06, 5th February 2014 |
I'm attaching another photo of the damage, it's just been posted to the WNXX forum.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by ChrisB at 11:18, 5th February 2014 |
The answer I guess is for this to be repaired & another (external) sea wall to be constructed (which will obviously take up the beach area (if any).
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by chuffed at 11:23, 5th February 2014 |
Some reports suggest that there has been so much erosion that the beach at Dawlish may well have dropped some 10 or 12 feet, leaving more bedrock exposed. I suppose that could be used to anchor whatever is deemned necessary to protect the existing sea wall.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by chopper1944 at 11:41, 5th February 2014 |
With problems between Castle Cary and Taunton, Exeter and Newton Abbot/Totnes as well as branch lines in Devon and Cornwall, no mention of Cowley Bridge so far, and various maintenance enhancements between Taunton and Tiverton Parkway various serious consideration needs to be given to doubling the line completely between Castle Cary and Yeovil Junction, Yeovil Junction and Exeter to provide a more robust alternative to Paddington to Exeter via Castle Cary. With regard to Dawlish I believe the Environment Agency has drawn up a 10 point plan to protect the line through Dawlish but the recent ongoing events would appear to be considerably worse than what happened in the 1960's. Perhaps consideration should be given to reinstating the line between Exeter and Plymouth via Okehampton or digging out the GWR plans from the archives of Devon County Council for a faster inland route between Exeter and Newton Abbot. In this day and age it is a poor reflection of how the South West peninsula is perceived in Whitehall from a railway point of view. I know there will be a cost whatever is eventually decided, but the fact that at the present time a City as large as Plymouth is effectively not connected to the rest of the rail network is a disgrace, well done Beeching and the old regional rivalries which still persist to this day which decimated the routes in the South West!!
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by marky7890 at 12:05, 5th February 2014 |
Network rail just posted this photo on twitter. The bit that has been washed away appears to be where the walkway along side drops down, and so the sea wall is much thinner. The walkway seems to have stopped the rest of the track being washed away.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by ChrisB at 12:15, 5th February 2014 |
This looks a lot more than 30 feet....
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by stebbo at 14:19, 5th February 2014 |
Been predicted for a few years now. How easy would it be to dust off the old inland route from Exeter to Newton Abbot, though I'm not sure if that would be susceptible to high speed running? Going via Okehampton would require two train reversals for Penzance - Paddington. But both of these would make electrification easier.
How about diverting some of the HS2 cash to preserve an existing line to an important part of the countryside?
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by PhilWakely at 14:27, 5th February 2014 |
Been predicted for a few years now. How easy would it be to dust off the old inland route from Exeter to Newton Abbot, though I'm not sure if that would be susceptible to high speed running? Going via Okehampton would require two train reversals for Penzance - Paddington. But both of these would make electrification easier.
How about diverting some of the HS2 cash to preserve an existing line to an important part of the countryside?
How about diverting some of the HS2 cash to preserve an existing line to an important part of the countryside?
Far easier to reinstate the Okehampton to Bere Alston link and make it usable at reasonably high speeds. The old Teign Valley route has been virtually obliterated and was only single track suitable for 14xx with Auto coaches.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by thetrout at 14:32, 5th February 2014 |
I decided to return on 1C87 the 1448 ex PAD, and not bother waiting for the 1703 (and missed meeting thetrout - sorry).
No worries I have a habit of appearing on a train in the very near future
BTW, 1C87 not booked to stop at Westbury, but ran through the station rather than the avoiding line - points failure again?? (see my earlier topic about Totnes - is it me?!)
The 17:03 also ran via Westbury Station, Platform 1 but did not call there.
There is a large lake near the avoid line so could have been flooding (Mere speculation) What is more likely IMO is setting the points in the same position for the Up/Down trains that do call at Westbury. With the poor weather it may have been overcautious working to prevent the points failing. I believe this is done when there is snow around... Even if it is the wrong type of snow...
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by paul7575 at 14:39, 5th February 2014 |
Large lake <> 'mere' speculation!
Nice connection there...
Paul
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by ChrisB at 14:42, 5th February 2014 |
Have we seen this one?
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by chopper1944 at 14:43, 5th February 2014 |
Pages 142 and 156 of the GWR in the 20th Century by O S Nock (Paperback) make interesting reading about the proposed Exeter to Newton Abbot route. One has only to look at a map of the network post the proposed electrification to see the great blank space that is the SouthWest peninsula. A new vision for the rail network in the far South West needs to be looked at as the present one of make do and mend is obviously not going to be fit for purpose in future especially with all the climate change that is being likely to happen. Some of the HS2 money would be better spent reinforcing the rail network in the south west but this is unlikely to happen unless the government stops being so London centred.
The latest estimate for the line to be working again is 4-6 weeks, weather permitting!! Some thinking outside the box is required other than just repairing until the next time.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by ChrisB at 14:46, 5th February 2014 |
There's some video of the missing 30' or so here
http://www.mobypicture.com/user/BigWoollyBum/view/16542525
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 15:10, 5th February 2014 |
Let us not be too hasty.
It might however be nearly time to consider appointing a commitee, to consider calling a meeting, to call for more studies.
It might however be nearly time to consider appointing a commitee, to consider calling a meeting, to call for more studies.
My kind of cynicism. I like it. Post of the day!
Here's a selection of photos trawled from social media, showing the damage at Dawlish. This is not going to be a easy fix. I reckon at least a month, and quite possibly a lot longer. I suspect there are one or two properties that may have to be demolished as well.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 15:37, 5th February 2014 |
Video report, courtesy of The Daily Telegraph, with an interview with an Environment Agency spokesman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBqDoFVpLoI
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by ChrisB at 15:38, 5th February 2014 |
That top one is a lot later than the others. Agreed, a lot longer than 2 weeks!
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 15:50, 5th February 2014 |
The Par-Newquay Line has again been suspended after briefly opening this morning. Flooding near St Columb Road.
Liskeard-Looe is also closed due to flooding.
Both are at Network Rail's highest state of alert - Black. And both have no alternative transport in place.
In Somerset, the line between Castle Cary and Cogload Junction is also closed due to flooding.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 17:02, 5th February 2014 |
FGW Sleepers have now been officially cancelled until the end of the month.
From FGW's Journey Check:
Due to a recent severe weather conditions in the Devon & Cornwall area. We have had to make the decision to cancel the Night Riviera Sleeper services between London Paddington and Penzance/Penzance and London Paddington until Friday 28th February 2014.
If you are affected by this change to your journey, and have not been contacted by our dedicated team concerning your travel arrangements, please contact our Customer Services team on 03457
000125 for further information.
If you are affected by this change to your journey, and have not been contacted by our dedicated team concerning your travel arrangements, please contact our Customer Services team on 03457
000125 for further information.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by bobm at 17:09, 5th February 2014 |
Probably only a matter of time before a similar annoucement is made about the Pullmans. However not as disruptive as losing the sleepers for a month.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by thetrout at 17:10, 5th February 2014 |
In Somerset, the line between Castle Cary and Cogload Junction is also closed due to flooding.
Considering my videos of a week ago, I'm not even slightly surprised...
There was also flood water very close to the Taunton - Bridgwater Line... This photo I took the same day as the videos. Taken from inside an XC HST and the quality isn't great because of the carriage lighting. So I've tweaked it slightly:
Anything above that yellow line is FLOOD WATER!
The Red Line is the Far Running Rail on the Down Line
I have immense sympathy to all the rail staff out there who are trying to prop up a network which is crashing down around them... Sympathy and extraordinary just doesn't even cut it though. Not even close!!
Considering the MET Office have issued a Flood Warning - Be Prepared (Orange Alert) Taunton could also find itself isolated from the rail network the way things are looking. In all truth, I am surprised that Cowley Bridge and the SWMLW-o-E Route to Exeter haven't been closed already.
Large lake <> 'mere' speculation!
Nice connection there...
Paul
Nice connection there...
Paul
HA! Thanks I didn't even think of that. For a moment it took me a while to work that one out!
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by Timmer at 17:38, 5th February 2014 |
You can forget 6 weeks to repair the damage. Just looked at the latest forecast models for Saturday and it looks concerning to say the least adding to the damage that's already done looking likely. Thoughts with those who are suffering from the effects of this terrible winter.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by The Tall Controller at 17:41, 5th February 2014 |
State of play as it stands between Newton Abbot and Penzance:
The total amount of rolling stock in the area amounts to 10 units (mix of 1 and 2) coaches, 4 HSTs, 2 voyagers and 1 sleeper train.
FGW are trying to get a PLY - PNZ shuttle in place for tonight and will no doubt be trying to plan a timetable with what stock is available for the next 4-6 weeks.
Probably a wild guess but I can see the sleeper stock coming in handy....
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by SandTEngineer at 17:42, 5th February 2014 |
Well here is the first view I have seen from the sea side of the actual breach: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=580867352007226&set=p.580867352007226&type=1
It looks although the concrete foundation at the toe of the wall has survived (and done the job it was designed to do). Looks like the waves just punched out the vertical stone wall. On that basis the damage doesn't look quite as bad a I feared and hopefully it will just be a backfilling job with some temporary sheet piling replicating the wall. Time will tell....
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 17:58, 5th February 2014 |
Well here is the first view I have seen from the sea side of the actual breach: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=580867352007226&set=p.580867352007226&type=1
Here's that picture for folks who don't 'do' Facebook:
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by SandTEngineer at 18:55, 5th February 2014 |
On the local BBC South-West news this evening Patrick Hallgate from NR stated that they had carried out an examination of the entire sea wall (all 4 miles of it). They have found 4 sites with serious damage (not just Dawlish by the sounds of it). They are still sticking to their 6 week timeframe for restoration (with caveats).
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by Timmer at 19:32, 5th February 2014 |
Latest from FGW:
http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/dawlishseawall
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by Andy at 20:21, 5th February 2014 |
To echo the words of an earlier poster, hats off to all the railway workers - and all other services - out there dealing with passengers, infrastructure or logistics. It must be an awful situation.
The sea wall disruption caused by these storms, the flooding at Cowley Bridge and the Somerset levels and the work at Whiteball undoubtedly add impetus to the campaign to have a second inland route between Cornwall/Plymouth to Exeter/beyond, be that via Tavistock and Okehampton or via Newton Abbot and Exeter. Even over the next couple of months, starting/terminating services at Okehampton rather than Exeter, were it a viable alternative, would alleviate some of the delays that will have to be endured.
ps - on a flippant note, I can't help wondering if all this terrible weather isn't divine retribution against certain comments by former UKIP members.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by SandTEngineer at 21:11, 5th February 2014 |
...and here it is with the tide out:
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 21:27, 5th February 2014 |
An article from the Daily Mail, with a slideshow of high quality photographs of storm damage at Dawlish and other locations across the West Country:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2552027/Britains-coastline-battered-storms-hurricane-force-winds-sweep-Atlantic.html
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by onthecushions at 22:05, 5th February 2014 |
Looking at the last picture in post 60, it appears that the concrete armour (about 3m thick) on the London side of the breach has protected the formation very well, with only superficial damage to the boundary wall.
What a pity that it had not been continued along in front of the houses. The sea strength is probably at its maximum there.
OTC
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by bobm at 23:08, 5th February 2014 |
Looking ahead, the very real problem for FGW and Cross Country is what stock have they got trapped west of the sea wall and what effect will it have on the rest of the fleet which cannot access Laira depot for maintenance. How much of their work can be done at FGW's other depots?
As I understand it most of the Cornish branchlines use stock based in Plymouth, Par or Penzance so should be relatively unaffected however the Paignton line uses stock from Exeter which is currently not an option. Also I think Cornish DMU stock goes to Exeter for exams etc. from time to time.
As for HSTs and Voyagers there could possibly be too many the wrong side of the seawall which might impact on services "up country".
All in all I expect some midnight oil is being burned by the train planning teams.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by chrisoates at 23:21, 5th February 2014 |
Looking ahead, the very real problem for FGW and Cross Country is what stock have they got trapped west of the sea wall and what effect will it have on the rest of the fleet which cannot access Laira depot for maintenance. How much of their work can be done at FGW's other depots?
As I understand it most of the Cornish branchlines use stock based in Plymouth, Par or Penzance so should be relatively unaffected however the Paignton line uses stock from Exeter which is currently not an option. Also I think Cornish DMU stock goes to Exeter for exams etc. from time to time.
As for HSTs and Voyagers there could possibly be too many the wrong side of the seawall which might impact on services "up country".
All in all I expect some midnight oil is being burned by the train planning teams.
As I understand it most of the Cornish branchlines use stock based in Plymouth, Par or Penzance so should be relatively unaffected however the Paignton line uses stock from Exeter which is currently not an option. Also I think Cornish DMU stock goes to Exeter for exams etc. from time to time.
As for HSTs and Voyagers there could possibly be too many the wrong side of the seawall which might impact on services "up country".
All in all I expect some midnight oil is being burned by the train planning teams.
Some has done the work already....
The following units are currently trapped between Penzance and Newton Abbot:
Quote
Class 150: 150122, 150125, 150129, 150130, 150131, 150202 and 150219
Class 153: 153305, 153329, 153369, 153372, 153377
Class 220: 220013, 220014
Class 221: 221127, 221134
Plus 4 HSTs and a Sleeper set.
------------------------
It's anticipated that the Voyagers might be moved north by road.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 23:28, 5th February 2014 |
As posted on another forum. Stock on the 'wrong side' of the sea wall collapse. Not verified:
Class 150: 150125, 150129, 150130, 150131, 150202 and 150219
Class 153: 153305, 153329, 153369, 153372, 153377
Class 220: 220013, 220014
Class 221: 221127, 221134
Additionally, I'm led to believe, 4 HST sets, and of course 1 Sleeper set.
I think there is sufficient there for FGW to operate full branchline timetables, Newton Abbot-Paignton, and a mainline shuttle service. What CrossCountry will do with their Voyagers I've no idea.
Laira is probably sufficiently equipped for light maintenance, and spares can be brought in by road as necessary. Exams will, I guess, have to be postponed. Ultimately, low loaders could be used to move stock by road, but that ain't cheap and takes a lot of organising. If CrossCountry want their Voyagers back that's 18 vehicles to move. Very expensive.
All speculation on my part. If any of our 'staff' forum members know more then please do post.
EDIT: Ah, beaten to it by chrisoates. What he said! (Although I'm told 150122 is in Exeter)
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 23:40, 5th February 2014 |
Possibly the most spectacular picture I've yet seen of the ferocious sea at Dawlish at high tide this morning:
Used with permission ^Kevin Wills 2014
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by marky7890 at 23:53, 5th February 2014 |
There are some great photos on Antony Christie's site from after the storm:
http://antony-christie.blogspot.co.uk/
Looks like the entire seafront may have to relaid.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by wabbit at 07:08, 6th February 2014 |
I know it's been said before, but I'll just add my voice to those clamouring for an inland route to be worked up and constructed so the West Country isn't so much at the mercy of the weather. Perhaps it could be put in as part of the South West trains operating area, giving the Great Western a bit of competition, but also a diversionary route in case this sort of weather event happens again.....
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by TaplowGreen at 11:47, 6th February 2014 |
.....I think this also serves to illustrate the fragility of transport infrastructure in the South West, and the utter folly of closing Plymouth Airport.....the only option for travel west of Exeter now is the A38, hardly ideal for Plymouth, one of the UK's most important cities.......but then I am a Janner so am biased!!!
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by ChrisB at 11:53, 6th February 2014 |
I think it needs working up, but paid for by the EU - as they recognise it as n EU region.
More pics, that I haven't yet seen posted here -
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by AMLAG at 12:53, 6th February 2014 |
Let Network Rail do what it can to now temporarily - because that is what it is likely to be if all the expert information on rising sea levels & more frequent severe storms are to be believed - repair the sea wall between Dawlish Warren & Teignmouth; it's not now just the vast chasm at Dawlish.
With National (Quantitative Easing ?!) and EU funding (after all Cornwall has Objective One status) to re-instate Meldon to Tavistock/Bere Alston with a Parkway station at Sourton to serve West Devon, North West Devon and mainly North Cornwall ..and as someone has already suggested by extension of SWT Exeter/Waterloo service which is increasingly needing some fast limited stop trains - perhaps just Honiton, Axminster, Sherborne, Salisbury, & Basingstoke.
Perhaps in time Overhead Electrification ..no problems with sea, salt,sand & eyesore O/H coastal wires or limited clearance Marley Tunnels.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by onthecushions at 13:03, 6th February 2014 |
The scandal of the Dawlish washout is that there was no sea protection to speak of as the pictures in posts 70 and 85 now show. The stone retaining wall was mostly decorative, retaining the earth fill of the embankment but largely useless for storm protection. Only a concrete apron had been laid at the base to prevent underscouring (which it did nicely).
Well done again, DfT!
OTC
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by ChrisB at 14:00, 6th February 2014 |
There's talk now of something to protect the wall during repair - which if they're (and the councils) are sensible, can be permanent protection.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by trainbuff at 14:00, 6th February 2014 |
State of play as it stands between Newton Abbot and Penzance:
The total amount of rolling stock in the area amounts to 10 units (mix of 1 and 2) coaches, 4 HSTs, 2 voyagers and 1 sleeper train.
FGW are trying to get a PLY - PNZ shuttle in place for tonight and will no doubt be trying to plan a timetable with what stock is available for the next 4-6 weeks.
Probably a wild guess but I can see the sleeper stock coming in handy....
The total amount of rolling stock in the area amounts to 10 units (mix of 1 and 2) coaches, 4 HSTs, 2 voyagers and 1 sleeper train.
FGW are trying to get a PLY - PNZ shuttle in place for tonight and will no doubt be trying to plan a timetable with what stock is available for the next 4-6 weeks.
Probably a wild guess but I can see the sleeper stock coming in handy....
There are actually 4 Voyagers trapped. 2x5 car and 2x 4 car
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by PhilWakely at 14:13, 6th February 2014 |
With National (Quantitative Easing ?!) and EU funding (after all Cornwall has Objective One status) to re-instate Meldon to Tavistock/Bere Alston with a Parkway station at Sourton to serve West Devon, North West Devon and mainly North Cornwall ..and as someone has already suggested by extension of SWT Exeter/Waterloo service which is increasingly needing some fast limited stop trains - perhaps just Honiton, Axminster, Sherborne, Salisbury, & Basingstoke.
Perhaps in time Overhead Electrification ..no problems with sea, salt,sand & eyesore O/H coastal wires or limited clearance Marley Tunnels.
I agree entirely, but historically the South West has been treated almost with disdain by successive governments. You'd almost believe that nothing exists west of a line drawn between Southampton and Bristol! Each time proposals to improve the A303 road have been put forward, they have effectively been brushed under the carpet; the rail electrification proposals clearly ignore the South West; the Economic Assessment produced for HS2 clearly showed parts of the South West having a negative outlook; and proposals for doubling even short stretches of the SR route are given the cold shoulder.
I fear that it'll be nothing more than 'a few million' for political expediency to be seen to be doing something. but nowhere near enough to do anything other than repair the damage.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by thetrout at 14:31, 6th February 2014 |
The weather status from the MET Office for the Wouth West over the next 48 hours looks and makes very grim reading...
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/warnings/#?tab=warnings&map=Warnings&zoom=5&lon=-3.50&lat=55.50&fcTime=1391644800®ionName=sw
If conditions at Dawlish get worse, I can see Network Rail pulling out of all attempted repair work for the safety of staff. That won't please the public, but the possibilities of something going wrong and staff being injured or worse would cause even more (and rightly so) public outcry.
I think NR are going to be the villains here whatever happens...
Does anyone know what the ongoing status is for the South West? How many areas remain on Red and Black status??
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by ChrisB at 14:37, 6th February 2014 |
There's another storm brewing for this weekend and a further one for Tuesday.
Until the barricade to protect the wall works can be installed, I can't see them doing very much at all other than surveys frankly. A 48 hour window isn't enough time to anything major.
So there may well be 6 weeks 'work', but it might take that long before they can actually start. Easter might be a sensible target, to allow the holidaymakers in?
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by AMLAG at 14:56, 6th February 2014 |
Ah but could this time the difference be that the 'Political' sensitivity to the mounting Campaign against HS2 actually mean a beneficial Sop to the SW in the form of an alternative rail route to the now demonstrated and very obviously short life threatened coastal route?
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by ChrisB at 15:09, 6th February 2014 |
I don't see any 'short-life' if the sea wall is rebuilt properly & defences also built properly.
But the council is going to have to accept that their beach there may well disappear.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by stuving at 16:03, 6th February 2014 |
When I saw the cross-section of the existing wall at the break, I was struck by how insubstantial it is - more like a garden retaining wall than a proper seawall. You wonder how it has lasted so long, even with a lot a repair and maintenance each year.
As for an emergency repair, my first thought was to get some big concrete blocks and plonk them on the flat wall (path) in front of the ex-embankment. "Big" would mean big enough to stay put by their own weight - I'd guess about 20 tons or so. However, I can't find any mention of that as a standard technique, and it may not be possible to find a combination of crane size and crane siting that provides strong enough ground and adequate reach - the access road in front of the houses looks to narrow and likely to collapse. Still, I can't help feeling that there must be a method that starts with a phone call to Ainscoughs.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by JayMac at 16:17, 6th February 2014 |
From a Network Rail press release:
Engineers working to shore up damaged railway at Dawlish as weekend storm approaches
Thursday 6 Feb 2014
Network Rail engineers are today starting work to try and prevent any further damage to the railway at Dawlish in Devon as another Atlantic storm system is forecast to hit the south-west of England on Saturday.
Around 80m of sea wall has been destroyed by high tides and stormy seas, causing a significant stretch of railway to collapse into the sea. The road adjacent to the railway and several houses have also been significantly damaged, along with damage at Dawlish station itself.
Network Rail has mobilised a range of specialist contractors, engineers and suppliers from across the country to help with the work needed at Dawlish and has also taken up the offer of discussions with the Ministry of Defence to see if there is any help which can be provided by armed forces personnel based in the south-west.
Initial estimates are that it will take at least six weeks to reopen the railway, but the immediate priority is to shore up the damaged section on Thursday and Friday using a concrete spraying machine which was until recently being used to refurbish Whiteball Tunnel in Somerset.
A period of calmer weather is predicted once the weekend^s storm system has passed, which will enable Network Rail and its partners to fully assess the damage and how long it will take to begin the task of rebuilding the railway.
Network Rail^s route managing director for the Western route, Patrick Hallgate, said: ^We absolutely understand the importance of the railway to the south west and will do everything we can to rebuild the railway at Dawlish as quickly and safely as we can.
^After a quieter night^s weather, we have been able to begin delivering machinery to our site compound with a view to protecting the exposed section of railway and the land behind it. We need to make sure we limit any further damage this weekend so that the significant repairs that are needed do not become greater still.
^We will continue working with the Government, Environment Agency, local authorities and other partners to explore ways of improving the railway^s resilience to extreme weather. The disruption to rail services in the south-west highlights the importance of that work and the need for all forms of transport to ensure that they are fit for the future.^
In addition, engineers are on site at a number of locations in the south west of England and are making repairs where the weather conditions permit. Services have resumed between Plymouth and Newton Abbot, but there will be no trains east of Newton Abbot to Exeter until the line is repaired at Dawlish.
Notes to editors
Further photos of the damage at Dawlish can be found here: bit.ly/LSxX2Q
Timeline:
Tuesday, 4 February ^ Weather forecasts predict a major storm off the coast of Devon and Cornwall. Network Rail marine buoys predict ^black^ storm conditions, with six-metre waves. This is the first ^black^ conditions predicted since the system was installed in 2007.
3.15pm ^ The line through Dawlish is closed to trains and staff withdrawn to safe locations.
Serious overtopping by waves is reported through the evening.
9pm onwards, damage reports received concerning both the railway and the adjoining land.
11pm-2.30am Inspections confirm extent of severe damage.
Wednesday, 5 February ^ Engineers on site at first light but unable to inspect the line due to contiuning storm conditions. Teams of engineers, contractors and suppliers mobilised and head to Dawlish. Work begins on site compound to store machinery to shore up damage, including spray-concrete equipment.
Thursday 6 Feb 2014
Network Rail engineers are today starting work to try and prevent any further damage to the railway at Dawlish in Devon as another Atlantic storm system is forecast to hit the south-west of England on Saturday.
Around 80m of sea wall has been destroyed by high tides and stormy seas, causing a significant stretch of railway to collapse into the sea. The road adjacent to the railway and several houses have also been significantly damaged, along with damage at Dawlish station itself.
Network Rail has mobilised a range of specialist contractors, engineers and suppliers from across the country to help with the work needed at Dawlish and has also taken up the offer of discussions with the Ministry of Defence to see if there is any help which can be provided by armed forces personnel based in the south-west.
Initial estimates are that it will take at least six weeks to reopen the railway, but the immediate priority is to shore up the damaged section on Thursday and Friday using a concrete spraying machine which was until recently being used to refurbish Whiteball Tunnel in Somerset.
A period of calmer weather is predicted once the weekend^s storm system has passed, which will enable Network Rail and its partners to fully assess the damage and how long it will take to begin the task of rebuilding the railway.
Network Rail^s route managing director for the Western route, Patrick Hallgate, said: ^We absolutely understand the importance of the railway to the south west and will do everything we can to rebuild the railway at Dawlish as quickly and safely as we can.
^After a quieter night^s weather, we have been able to begin delivering machinery to our site compound with a view to protecting the exposed section of railway and the land behind it. We need to make sure we limit any further damage this weekend so that the significant repairs that are needed do not become greater still.
^We will continue working with the Government, Environment Agency, local authorities and other partners to explore ways of improving the railway^s resilience to extreme weather. The disruption to rail services in the south-west highlights the importance of that work and the need for all forms of transport to ensure that they are fit for the future.^
In addition, engineers are on site at a number of locations in the south west of England and are making repairs where the weather conditions permit. Services have resumed between Plymouth and Newton Abbot, but there will be no trains east of Newton Abbot to Exeter until the line is repaired at Dawlish.
Notes to editors
Further photos of the damage at Dawlish can be found here: bit.ly/LSxX2Q
Timeline:
Tuesday, 4 February ^ Weather forecasts predict a major storm off the coast of Devon and Cornwall. Network Rail marine buoys predict ^black^ storm conditions, with six-metre waves. This is the first ^black^ conditions predicted since the system was installed in 2007.
3.15pm ^ The line through Dawlish is closed to trains and staff withdrawn to safe locations.
Serious overtopping by waves is reported through the evening.
9pm onwards, damage reports received concerning both the railway and the adjoining land.
11pm-2.30am Inspections confirm extent of severe damage.
Wednesday, 5 February ^ Engineers on site at first light but unable to inspect the line due to contiuning storm conditions. Teams of engineers, contractors and suppliers mobilised and head to Dawlish. Work begins on site compound to store machinery to shore up damage, including spray-concrete equipment.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by bobm at 16:52, 6th February 2014 |
Seat reservations and all advance purchase tickets for journeys west of Taunton suspended until a revised timetable is drawn up.
Ticket restrictions for today and tomorrow for London to Exeter and beyond lifted.
Unused tickets dated for today also valid tomorrow.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by phile at 18:05, 6th February 2014 |
Looking ahead, the very real problem for FGW and Cross Country is what stock have they got trapped west of the sea wall and what effect will it have on the rest of the fleet which cannot access Laira depot for maintenance. How much of their work can be done at FGW's other depots?
As I understand it most of the Cornish branchlines use stock based in Plymouth, Par or Penzance so should be relatively unaffected however the Paignton line uses stock from Exeter which is currently not an option. Also I think Cornish DMU stock goes to Exeter for exams etc. from time to time.
As for HSTs and Voyagers there could possibly be too many the wrong side of the seawall which might impact on services "up country".
All in all I expect some midnight oil is being burned by the train planning teams.
The Branches stock are not based at Plymouth (Laira, I presume you mean). They are based at Exeter, work into Cornwall (on 06 29 Exter to Newquay), cycle round the Branches and return to Exeter on 21 25 Plymouth to Exeter (attd 150). They visit Plymouth and also Long Rock for overnight servicing but not for maintenance. As I understand it most of the Cornish branchlines use stock based in Plymouth, Par or Penzance so should be relatively unaffected however the Paignton line uses stock from Exeter which is currently not an option. Also I think Cornish DMU stock goes to Exeter for exams etc. from time to time.
As for HSTs and Voyagers there could possibly be too many the wrong side of the seawall which might impact on services "up country".
All in all I expect some midnight oil is being burned by the train planning teams.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by ellendune at 18:53, 6th February 2014 |
I don't see any 'short-life' if the sea wall is rebuilt properly & defences also built properly.
But the council is going to have to accept that their beach there may well disappear.
But the council is going to have to accept that their beach there may well disappear.
A larger beach may well be a part of the improved sea defences!. Look at what they did at Lyme Regis.
As for an emergency repair, my first thought was to get some big concrete blocks and plonk them on the flat wall (path) in front of the ex-embankment. "Big" would mean big enough to stay put by their own weight - I'd guess about 20 tons or so. However, I can't find any mention of that as a standard technique, and it may not be possible to find a combination of crane size and crane siting that provides strong enough ground and adequate reach - the access road in front of the houses looks to narrow and likely to collapse. Still, I can't help feeling that there must be a method that starts with a phone call to Ainscoughs.
I think Gabions (large wire baskets filled with rocks) would be a more practical way of a quick repair.
Re: Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion Posted by thetrout at 19:25, 6th February 2014 |
From the BBC
Three points that stood out to me from a skim read of the article. I am intentionally playing devils advocate here mind
: BBC News 06/02/2014 - 18:43
Mr McLoughlin promised MPs a "rigorous review" of alternative rail routes in south-west England in the wake of the storm that destroyed parts of the railway line in Dawlish, Devon.
Oh, so you are having the review now a serious incident has happened...
But UKIP, which dismissed the extra spending as "far too little, far too late", called on the government to channel part of its foreign aid budget into helping those worst hit by the flooding.
It is urging the government to suspend payments from the ^11bn annual budget and divert them "on a month by month basis" to areas in most need of repairs to storm-damaged property, renewal of flood defences and restoration of transport links.
It is urging the government to suspend payments from the ^11bn annual budget and divert them "on a month by month basis" to areas in most need of repairs to storm-damaged property, renewal of flood defences and restoration of transport links.
Completely agree with my emphasis in bold! Not the first time this has happened and now it's caught everyone by surprise. As I said in an earlier post. Hats off to all the rail staff, I don't think the words "difficult times" covers it.
David Cameron, who is chairing a Cobra emergency committee, insisted: "We're not just talking, we're acting."
Asked whether visiting flood-hit Somerset would be more useful than talking in London, the prime minister said: "It was because of Cobra that we got extra pumps down to Somerset. It was because of Cobra that I forced through the extra ^100m of funding.
"It's because of Cobra that the army is available to help in Somerset. If there's anything that they can do to help, they will do."
And he added: "Believe me, I will be in Somerset before long, listening to people directly."
Asked whether visiting flood-hit Somerset would be more useful than talking in London, the prime minister said: "It was because of Cobra that we got extra pumps down to Somerset. It was because of Cobra that I forced through the extra ^100m of funding.
"It's because of Cobra that the army is available to help in Somerset. If there's anything that they can do to help, they will do."
And he added: "Believe me, I will be in Somerset before long, listening to people directly."
Blowing your trumpet is all very well and good. But having meetings about getting work done is not always the best way to go about things. During those meetings who is doing the urgent work that needs to be done?
Last year I was asked to provide a report on why a server I manage failed, what happened, why it happened and who's fault it was. During this "discussion" I suggested that it would take me about 4 hours to produce the report to sufficient detail; But asked during the 4 hours it's taking me to do the report, who is fixing the server to resume it's service? The board of managers just looked at me and said nothing ... To which I bluntly said "Fix the problem, then find out who's fault was..." Needless to say, I was told to fix it and then do the report.
I suspect Mr Cameron hasn't been down to Somerset after the Environment Secretary got more than he bargained for from residents of Somerset for allegedly doing nothing and not learning lessons from last year.
All the above is cynical and intentionally devils advocate. I'm in the middle of something so needed to be brief. So open to corrections